Treatygate, Waikato, Water ownership

85% (and 61% of Maori) say Maori don't own water

‘… a Waikato Times scratch poll … found
a deep well of discontent with Maori claims …
with the question “Do Maori own water?”
netting a string of rolled eyes from the public.’

In keeping with larger formal polls, a quick poll taken by the Waikato Times has returned the same old 80%+ figure against racial favouritism.

In this case the number was 85% — with 61% of Maori also saying Maori don’t own water.

Good on you, Maori! This reinforces my view that more of you are Achievers than Grievers.

(If only the same could be said for those who claim to represent you.)

Excerpts from the story:

Maoridom’s top brass left Turangawaewae marae united in their bid for ownership of water, but a clear majority of Waikato people polled by the Times say iwi have no more right to it than anyone else.

… a Waikato Times scratch poll of 120 people in central Hamilton yesterday found a deep well of discontent with Maori claims on natural resources with the question “Do Maori own water?” netting a string of rolled eyes from the public.

A resounding 85 per cent of the 120 people asked said no, Maori do not own water.

Of the 28 participants who identified as having a Maori affiliation in the unscientific Times poll, 61 per cent said Maori did not own water, 36 per cent said they did and 3 per cent were not sure.

Rangi Solomon, who is of Maori descent, said all Kiwis had equal right to water.

“I think it’s a resource that’s available to all ethnicities, all New Zealanders.”

The government knows over 80% of us oppose their Griever Maori appeasement policy. Yet it does nothing, because it reckons non-Maori and Achiever Maori are too lazy to push back.

Well, as they will soon discover, the pushback has begun.

What started as a little snowball is building into an unstoppable avalanche that will consume any politician who stands in its way.

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92 thoughts on “85% (and 61% of Maori) say Maori don't own water

  1. You are absolutely right, Helen. It Is called ‘Positive Discrimination’; such as reserved places for Maori and Pacific Islanders at universities and technical institutes, and requiring lower entry grades. Reserved employment places in the public services, etc,- the list goes on and on. We read in the Herald this week of many thousands of dollars granted by the Auckland Council to Pasific Island and Diwali festivals and only 2000 dollars for a Scottish festival. The reason for the huge discrepancy is obvious – Brown gets his support from South Auckland.

    A Ministry of Ethnic Affairs – except, of course, European ethnicity.

    ‘Positive Discrimination’ must end in a Colourblind New Zealand.

  2. I have been thinking about this whole pakeha are apathetic and lazy thing, and I think that while that may be partly true, I think there is more to it. I think there are other factors, for example, pakeha kiwi’s are pretty relaxed and laid back. Most are just getting on with life, working, bringing up kids, doing their weekend things and are not really looking for a fight. They would rather live in peace and just get on with it. Pakeha have put the past behind them and are happy that way. None of us would even be thinking about the past and any wrongs done on either side, if it wasn’t for the maori claims and maori constantly complaining and blaming us for their woes.

    And while most of us were ok with any genuine claims being settled, pretty much all of us feel it has gone way too far now, to the point of it being totally ridiculous. It seems like it’s never going to end and it is now affecting almost every part of our lives, and that is why pakeha are now getting to the point of saying enough is enough. We want our lives back and to not have them being taken over by a culture that is not our own.

    Maori would probably say they would have preferred the same. But there is a difference. While the colonialists may have brought another way of life to NZ than what maori had before pakeha got here, pakeha brought with them enormous advantages. The opportunities that maori have had since colonisation, to catch up with the rest of civilisation and progress in the world far faster than they would have on their own, cannot be over stated.

    On the other hand, maori want to take us backwards. We left our tribal beginnings behind thousands of years ago. We learnt that there is no way forward in the tribal mentality and gave it up. We evolved, changed and survived. We then progressed and advanced further than any other people on the planet into a great civilisation. There is a reason for that. None of us want to go back to that because we know it is backward, and not the way forward.

    A lot of maori have recognised this and have jumped on board to their advantage. The Chiefs recognised it when they signed the treaty and later when they asked that only English be allowed to be spoken in Schools. They knew that that was the way forward and in which their children would have the best chance to take advantage of and make their lives in the modern world.

    I know that a lot of people believe in the decolonisation movement, but can they tell us how many countries are better off for going through that process? How many of those countries are better off now? And they are mostly countries where the ‘native’ population was greater than the colonisers. In NZ, the ‘native’ population is a minority and the colonisers a massive majority, so it is even less likely to work, imho.

    Got a bit off track there, but what I’m trying to say I guess is that pakeha do not hold the grudges and go around demanding redress on the wrongs done them by past generations of maori, not because of apathy or laziness, but because we grew out of that kind of behaviour a very long time ago. We grew up as a people and now have different priorities. We concentrate our energies on making lives for ourselves, bringing up families,helping our communities, and so on.

  3. In defense of the oft-maligned taxpayer: 1) His apathy is a direct result of indoctrination from primary school on (hands up who remembers being taught that white Sth Africans were worse than Hitler? Look how much worse it is for blacks there now- and don’t get me started on Boer murders) 2) He is too busy working to catch the bus to the cameras on the march 3) He mistakenly believes that watching the news and reading the paper are keeping him informed [continuation of 1)] 4) His apathy is increased by the knowledge Key will ignore 80% of his employers again (think anti-smacking)
    Hey OT but not- think Locus of Control. The self-appointed neo-tribal elites are playing it down to the lowest. Maori society and the re-invention of whanau (no responsibility “parenting”-anyone owned up to dead Kahui’s?) shaking sticks and poking tongue out as a welcome. Ranginui (correct me if I’m wrong anakereiti) the Sky Father controls the rain. The God of God Defend New Zealand is almost officially displaced.
    This no responsibility/world owes me something attitude from the vocal minority will forever hold you ALL to ranson unless it is smashed.

    Therefore- Go John!

  4. As with any hierarchy, you need a vast amount of uneducated numbnuts at the bottom of the pyramid to give ultimate power and control to the one who sits at the top. Tribalism relies on this also. The grievance industry relies on it, as without a huge majority of failing souls, there is no grievance industry.

    Unfortunately for Maori, not only have the tribal leaders convinced Maori that they are going to be just statistics in the WINZ office and jail cells…. the rest of the nation also believes this to be the case. I know many people that refuse to hire Maori and the reason is simple, the Maori leaders have told us that they are no good. So, it is not a race problem as such that Maori unemployment is so high, its the very fact we have been told over and over again that Maori are inable to function in a modern world.

    Even Anakereiti has told us of Maori being down-trodden. A self inflicted social status to feed those at the top of the Maori food chain.

  5. JA. Just watched you on Native Affairs again on Maori TV website as I had a phonecall first time around last week. Metiria Turei clearly had no background knowledge of Treaty History. Have you considered placing a prominent link to the interview somewhere up front on this blog site?

  6. Paul h. If employers are refusing to hire Maori because theyare maorI. Then it is very much a race thing. Nothing more nothing less. It also explains Maori unemployment stats which then puts us in a position of being down trodden doesnt it? I had heard other excuses like we take longer for funerals etc. I dont nor do my friends or family we take bereavement leave as legally allowed. It also puts many Maori of being in a position that they take first crappy job offered . Crap pay crap conditions which is why we also feature amongst the poorest. And its always been that way

  7. I have a copy of the interview on my computer if anyone wants it. Just click on my name at the top of this comment. It will take you to one of my websites and you can find me email address on almost any page there. Drop me a line and I’ll send the file back to you.

  8. Anakereti. Unfortunately, your response taints of rock ape syndrome. What if Holden for 40 years talked us all into the fact that Holden was crap, not worth buying then all of a sudden, we stopped buying them and then got all wonky about it? Don’t cry racism because you lot sold your lot off as a non-wanted lot to get their lot… you got your lot so live with your lot. That’s my lot.

  9. Cop out Paul. If your not hiring me due to my race its racism. Im not saying you all have to like me I am saying if your not going to look at hiring me due to the fact im Maori you are being racist.

  10. Tribalism is not without its advantages. The structure of tribalism is a ready made network which treaty fraudsters use successfully, incubating the current treasured wound mentality, misinforming and mobilsing large groups of Maori to their cause. Tribalism has served their purpose well. The Pakeha system is one of Individualism and it’s a fragmented network.

    I hear fellow Pakeha moaning about the way things are. They mention the treaty and the handouts etc; but the minute you start discussing details and history and the kind actions that could be taken, well most of them tend to get a glazed look in their eyes and smile sweetly but that’s it. They need to be more informed, me included. It’s a majority that thinks there’s a scam being foisted but they don’t have the details or knowledge to give them a kick-start.

    And the majority we talk about is diverse and I get a bit tired of the generalisations here. The majority will be people of varying political stripes and maybe even some sandal-wearing tree-huggers and definitely some lefties and given the diverisity, waking and informing the sleeping giant without scaring it off is the challenge.

    Thankfully we have you John – no pressure 🙂

  11. Just a suggestion how about going to the Franklin elocal site and checking through relevant back issues when thinking with a clear head and peace in your Heart and when ‘ treatygate’ is seached, you will then also have links to what some may deem less enlighed sites views to form your own overview of our past. I hope this helps.

  12. Anakereiti: “I had heard other excuses like we take longer for funerals etc. I dont nor do my friends or family we take bereavement leave as legally allowed”

    Who have we got to blame for that misrepresentation of Maori work ethic?

    Identity politics and Iwi leaders pushing cultural policies into the mainstream maybe?

    I remember when that law came out about Maori attending funerals.

    It prompted some discussion and people rolling their eyes.

    To me that impacts Maori employment opportunities as paid maternity leave impacts employment for women.

    Our government goes does these stupid ‘feel good’ things and it can have negative impacts on employee’s and employers.

  13. Marvin – I think the plans John A has talked about for a series of advertisements will go a long way to turning on the light for many.

    Anakereiti – imagine a banner on Waitangi Day drawing attention to the Littlewood document. Ha – might be a bit of a bunfight.

  14. Kasbar; good point, although ‘bunfight’ is an understatement. I often chuckle at banners proclaiming ‘The Treaty is a Fraud’. The irony of it.

  15. @ Anakereiti. Nope, not a race issue. We have been told by your elders that your lot are rockapaes and unemployable. My sons being part Maori, prob just like you, are moving on with their lives as humans rather than being branded as fodder for the elite. So Anakereiti, you fodder or Maori acheiver?

  16. What’s this expression ‘rock apes’, Paul? You use it a lot, but I don’t like the sound of it.

    I get a similar feeling every time Grant Nisbet calls the South African prop Mtarawiwa ‘The Beast’.

    I don’t think animalising people – especially people who have experienced and are sensitive to the sting of racism – is a good look.

  17. I see what you mean about the advantages of tribalism, Kasbar. It has certainly been to their advantage in that aspect.

    One of the things I have always admired about maori is the extended family and the way they look after their elderly. I think we could learn a lot from them in this aspect. I see so many of our elderly who are very lonely, often in homes and seemingly forgotten. Family strewn all over the globe.

    I don’t believe that going backwards into tribalism is a good thing, but maybe we should all bring the good aspects forward into our future.

  18. JA. Rockape is a description of attitude or lack of. Sort of like “shallow as a birdbath” or ‘thick as a brick”. This term is not animalising. I am not calling Maori rock apes, birdbaths or bricks, I am stating that the elitist rely on their subclasses to assume the lack of motivation as anyone of these items may possess.

  19. @ Brenda Spiller. I think you are confusing tribalism and tribes with family and extended family. From what I can gather, the Italians are leaders when it comes to caring for the extended family and it is not exclusive to Maori. It wasnt that long ago that elderly Maori were required to walk off into the forest and live and perish in isolation. Im not saying this is wrong or hideous, every culture has their own unique way of doing things but im quite happy we have moved on from that practice. I do however have an issue concerning the Maori statistics that they should be put on a pedestal of ‘caring and loving’ as clearly that is not an accurate description.

  20. “@ Anakereiti. Nope, not a race issue. We have been told by your elders that your lot are rockapaes and unemployable. My sons being part Maori, prob just like you, are moving on with their lives as humans rather than being branded as fodder for the elite. So Anakereiti, you fodder or Maori acheiver”

    Paul H, you can wrap it how you want – if your refusing to look at hiring me, due to the fact Im Maori, it definitely is a race issue.

    If I refused to hire you (or look at hiring you) due to the fact your white – its racism.

    Rock apes has nothing to do with an “attitude” its akin to the old white slavers calling the negroes “monkeys” or “apes” – its a term that designates the person using it as someone who feels somehow superior to the people he is terming “rockape”

  21. I agree Brenda – Maori respect for their elderly is to be admired and Pakeha’s treatment of the elderly is shocking.

    Muriel Newman in her latest piece on NZCPR website refers to an study by Te Puni Koriri that cited the wish to escape tribalism as one of the reasons many Maori moved to Australia (2008)

    I have downloaded that study but haven’t got to reading it yet.

  22. @Anakereiti. I dont think you are correct. Race does not come into it. When hiring, attitude goes a long way. An employer wants a great person and we have had it instilled by your own elite that Maori are a poor choice. You tell someone enough times that they are mental.. they will start to believe it. Unfortunately, in order to justify the grievance industry, young Maori have had negative remarks from their elders and the rest of the nation has had to endure it and guess what? It seems like it worked and many do believe it. Not racism, but a self inflicted victimisation that has backfired terribly.

  23. @ Kasbar, haha, yes your right – BUT you arent in this to win a popularity contest are you? If you were I doubt you would be posting here.

    For me – if i wanted a point out there and I wanted people to try and understand my view point, especially an unpopular one – I would be getting the message out there. If you dont like my message, ask me about it , get my side of the story. Its pointed out to me many times on here that “treatygate” has 85% of the country behind it. Clearly thats not correct or there wouldnt be a fear of shouting it out to the rooftops.

    Now your all probably aware of my views – they may not be popular – but anyone i have any type of a relationship with, if things like this site etc are discussed and we all do discuss it, then my views are widely known. I dont keep my views a secret. Can you say the same? If you wish “treatygate” and the colourblind state to be successful you actually need to start telling people about it. Your better to do this in numbers.

    I really admire John A for getting out there and spreading his views. Not popular thats for sure – but at the moment (and this may sound harsh) if you look at John A and you know nothing about him and his objectives – what do you see? Well I see “The Lone Nutter” – its time more people came out in public support of John A and the crusade – so that John A instead of being the Lone Nutter, is in fact the General at the head of an army.

    Im not taking the piss – but someone needs to back him publicly and your better to do that in numbers.

  24. You and I Paul H, will agree to diagree – I say if your not hiring me, due to the fact Im Maori – its racism. You say its not – (deep breaths) but to continue this discussion will get us nowhere :). Best to leave it here

  25. @Anakereiti. Im sure many on here have offered JA support in many forms offline. I do suspect that JA is in the process of forming a structured organisation and once that happens, im sure you will get your wish and see a willingness to end inequality by public peaceful demonstrations.

  26. Thats good Paul H 🙂 now Im off to walk endless miles in the rain in the pursuit of a stupid HQ part, thats probably going to cost a fortune, for a stupid car, that apparently Im never going to get to drive . 🙂 stuff treatygate , we should have a MANGATE – ladies who is with me? haha – have nice day guys

  27. Anakereiti, I’m not involved for reasons of popularity, your dead right there. I am here to listen and to and consider what people are saying and I’ll continue to form my own opinions. This is a new road for me, so now I read what I can to establish for myself what the truth of our history is and when I’m done, (and in my own time thanks) I will really step forward. Yeah, we are going to have to step forward and back John up with more than on-line chat and support – I will do my best to attend his Tauranga launch. At the same time I won’t publicly stand up for a cause just because I THINK what John says is true. I want to want to at least be able to stand up with conviction knowing I have my facts right because what’s becoming apparent to me is there’s too many uninformed or deliberately misinformed – a rabble- who’re believing what they’ve been fed and who’ll protest and spew shallow slogans at the drop of a hat. I’m thinking Waitangi.

    Peter C – “Treaty Fraud” Ha, thanks for pointing out the irony, it made me smile.

  28. I’m afraid I can’t understand how one could know that someone wasn’t hired ‘because they were a Maori’. How could you know that? I’m sure an employer isn’t going to say that was the case.

    I firmly believe that where a ‘Maori’ isn’t employed, it is because of some other reason like attitude, qualifications, or similar. It won’t be just because they are a ‘Maori’. I have never ever heard of this as a reason – ever.

    Just a little education lesson (sorry) – but if you are wanting to abbreviate ‘you are’, it is “you’re”, not ‘your’. I know I’m not perfect either but this really does irk me a little. It is a common mistake with all too many however.

  29. Helen I checked back to see if it was me that had momentarily transgressed….and it was. I usually do get that right but it was just a momentary slip-up and I see I’m not the only one.

    Anakereiti ?

  30. No problem, Kasbar. It’s easy enough to do. As I say, I’m not perfect but even though I hesitated to mention it, thought I would anyway.

    I have to agree with Brenda and think it is great that you are sussing things out for yourself and not just taking anyone’s word for it. I did the same many years ago and have been frustrated ever since because I know what is happening is just a huge fraudulent wrong and what is driving me even more crazy now is that it is becoming ingrained into our everyday lives.

    It’s going to take a mighty effort to unravel it but we must do it for the sake of our children and grandchildren, and the country as a whole. Until we dispense with everything that is based on race, this country will continue to go down the gurgler and descend into Third World status.

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