This is Bruce Moon’s review of the Parihaka film, to which he alluded in the previous post.
I have mixed feelings about this post, as I have known and liked the executive producer of Tatarakihi, Gaylene Preston, for 25 years.
Nonetheless, as I say so often, truth matters.
This is what Bruce wrote…
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I went to see the much-lauded film Tatarakihi in Nelson on Monday night, 5th November.
It was accompanied by a live presentation, led by Maata Wharehoka, a well-known partisan of Parihaka.
She is a personable and confident lady, but that should not make what she says immune to criticism.
Earlier this year, she gave a very unbalanced account of Parihaka history to Pamela Wade, and this was printed in the NZ Herald.
I sent the Herald a detailed account of the false and misleading statements in this article. But the editor refused to publish it.
In a word, this film is propaganda.
The most glaring omission is that nowhere are any reasons given for the occupation of Parihaka by government troops.
Nor is it stated that there were no casualties at all.
Are we to assume that the government action was merely spite?
Those Maoris concerned seem to have very long memories about alleged injustices by Europeans.
They appear to have remarkably selective memories and ignore the many atrocities committed by Maoris against their own people.
Maata quoted a prophesy of the Maori king which “foresaw” the building of Parihaka and symbolism of the white feathers.
It would be appropriate to mention something of the record of the first of them, Potatau or Te Whero Whero.
Te Wherowhero,
installed as the first Maori King
Potatau I, in 1858.Thus, as recorded by E.J. Wakefield:
“Those who knew Te Whero Whero Potatau will recall the peculiar dignity of his manner, and certainly no one would have supposed that the tall graceful looking man in the full dress of an English gentleman, who conversed with quite ease with those whom he met in the drawing rooms of Government House at Auckland, was the same person as the savage who sat naked on the ground at Pukerangiora smashing the skulls of hundreds of defenceless prisoners, until he was almost smothered with blood and brains”.
As W.T.L. Travers said in the 1872 book he wrote with Rev. J.W. Stack:
“I do not quote this bloodcurdling passage for sensationalism, but as an illustration of the deceptive and unconscionable ease with which tribal mentality can change to exploit differing circumstances.
We could do well in 2012 to remember this 1872 observation by Travers.
In 1840 much of Taranaki was entirely deserted, following the conquest by Waikato tribes, in which one-third of the people were killed, one third were carried off as slaves, and one-third fled to the south.
The remnant of fifty or so who remained lived in constant fear of attack, ready to swim to off-shore rocks at the least sign of danger.
After British sovereignty was established, the survivors in the south judged it safe to return.
But this led to disputes with the conquerors about who had the right to sell land to the would-be settlers.
This situation was highly confusing to the British.
And it was one frequently exploited by the tribes — land was sold three or more times over, as the following letter shows.
The History of Taranaki, published in 1878 by B. Wells, provided extracts from a letter the warrior chief Ihaia Kirikumara wrote in conjunction with his friend Tamati Tiraura to the settlers in New Plymouth:
Chief Ihaia Te Kirikumara
Friends,
Formerly we, the Maoris, lived alone in New Zealand.
We did wrong one to another. We ate one another. We exterminated one another.
Some had deserted the land. Some were enslaved.
The remnant that were spared went to seek other lands.
Now this was the arrangement of this Ngatiawa land.
Mokau was the boundary on the north, Ngamotu on the south.
Beyond was Taranaki and Ngatiruanui.
All was quiet, deserted.
The land, the sea, the streams, the lakes, the forests, the rocks, were deserted.
The food, the property, the work was deserted.
The dead and sick were deserted.
The landmarks were deserted.
Then came the Pakeha hither by sea from other dwellings.
They came to this land, and the Maori allowed them.
They came by chance to this place.
They came to a place whose inhabitants had left it.
There were few men here.
The men were a remnant, a handful returned from slavery.”
And the Pakeha asked, “Where are the men of this place?”
And they answered, “They have been driven away by war. We few have come back from another land.”
And the Pakeha said, “Are you willing to sell us this land?”
And they replied, “We are willing to sell it that it may not be barren.
Presently our enemies will come, and our places will be taken from us again.”
So payment was made.
It was not said, “Let the place be taken”, although the men were few.
The Pakeha did not say, “Let it be taken”, but the land was quietly paid for.
Now the Pakeha thoroughly occupied the purchases made with their money.
And the Maoris living in the land of bondage, and those who had fled, heard that the land had been occupied.
And they said, “Ah! Ah! The land has revived. Let us return to the land.”
So they returned.
Their return was in a friendly manner.
Their thought of the Pakeha was, “Let us dwell together. Let us work together.”
The Maoris began to dispute with the Pakeha.
When the Governor saw this, he removed the Pakeha to one spot to dwell.
Afterwards, the Pakeha made a second payment for the land.
And afterwards a third.
And then I said, “Ah! Ah! Very great indeed is the goodness of the Pakeha. He has not said that the payment ceases at the first time.”
My friends the Pakeha,
Wholly through you this land and the men of this land have become independent.
Do not say that I have seen this your goodness to day for the first time.
I knew it formerly, at the coming here of Governor Grey.
I was urgent that the land might be surrendered and paid for by him, that we might live here together.
We, the Maori and the Pakeha.
And my urgency did not end there but through the days of Governor Grey…”
This letter was written by the warrior chief Ihaia Kirikumara and his friend Tamati Tiraura at Waitara on 15 July 1860, and records that the land there was paid for three times over.I cannot give here a full account of early Taranaki history.
But the foregoing should be sufficient to indicate that where the film Tatarakihi claims that Maori ancestral lands were seized by the Crown, that settlers ploughed the stolen land and broke the fences, to the tune of three million acres, it is simply not telling the truth.
It is true that after the suppression of the initial rebellion, the government did confiscate rebel land.
They had been warned of this, and in any case would have understood such action, as it was in accord with long-standing Maori custom.
The rebels were not “tricked and cheated”, as the film says.
Much of the confiscated land was returned subsequently.
It was on such land that Te W’iti o Rongomai and Tohu Kakahi founded Parihaka village in 1867, the year after the end of the second rebellion in Taranaki (1863-1866) — clearly a provocative act.
They were followers of Te Ua Haumene’s Pai Marire (Hau Hau) religion, and in 1864 both played a part in the Hau Hau attack on Sentry Hill in northern Taranaki.
Only later did they became pacifists.
In December 1865, Te Ua consecrated them to carry on his religious work, though they did not observe the bloody Hau Hau practices at Parihaka.
The film makes much of Te W’iti’s three feathers.
They look remarkably like the British Prince of Wales’ feathers, which date back to Edward the Black Prince in the 14th century.
In any case, as I have noted earlier, white feathers were a symbol of peace of the Morioris of the Chatham Islands, who were enslaved, murdered and eaten by invading tribes from Taranaki, only 101 of an initial population of about 1600 remaining a few years later.
With reference to the prisoners taken south from Parihaka:
In visiting Ripapa Island, where they were held en route to Dunedin, Maaka says in the film that she feels the squalor and chains in its catacomb-like tunnels — failing to mention that it was built as a fort for harbour defence, and the tunnels were designed for that purpose.
My own father was ‘in camp’ there early in WWI, as a member of No 2 Company, Garrison Artillery, before he went to France.
While the prisoners’ conditions were harsh, for the film to show a picture of Dunedin under snow, which happens for only a few days each year, is gross exaggeration of the situation.
That 21 of 153 prisoners died there is regrettable, but perhaps not excessive in 19th century conditions anywhere.
Again, the film states that the last of the prisoners returned to Parihaka in 1898, which was after 17 years, not 19 as the film says.
It fails to say that most were released after 16 months.
But in a film which is a piece of propaganda, such lack of balance is to be expected.
We are told:
“The struggle continues. In the absence of justice there can be no peace.”
In conflict with that, an adjacent wall panel in the theatrette displays the three feathers and says “Where to from here? Goodwill to all humanity.”
Given the huge sums in Waitangi settlements recently given to numerous Taranaki tribes, it may be asked just how much more ‘justice’ do they expect?
Where else in the world are such huge sums in reparations paid to defeated rebels?
Note: my latest figures say four tribes have received a total of $111.5 million — with four more to come.
Remember, this is after a settlement in 1926 and a ‘final settlement’ of claims by the Taranaki Maori Settlement Act in 1944!
A biased Parihaka story has been presented repeatedly for far too long as a blot on the record of colonial days in New Zealand.
This has been aggravated recently by the blatant lying of the supposedly authoritative, but racist, Waitangi Tribunal in its statement that
“the invasion and sacking of Parihaka must rank with the most heinous action of any government in any country in the last century”
linking it with an alleged “holocaust of Taranaki history”, this being dutifully repeated by Taranaki ‘academic’ Kerry Opai in a well-publicised Waitangi Day interview with Kim Hill.
This shows just how far privileged groups will lie in order to advance their own interests.
With the benefit of hindsight, we can see that some of the actions of the colonial government of the day were not well-judged.
But they were faced with many difficulties of Maori making, including the murder of defenceless settler families.
Today, the sort of propaganda of which this film is a small example, has grown into a massive cancer upon the integrity of our nation.
The consequent deterioration of race relations is deplorable.
In conclusion, I mention that I am no racist.
The film says members of the Ellison family assisted prisoners in Dunedin.
I knew many of them well.
Rangi (1901-2001) and his younger brother, Mutu,QSM, were my friends.
And I knew their wives and family members.
My grandfather gave blankets to Maori families who needed them in the 1918 influenza epidemic.
And I have accepted his views in my work with people of many races, some of which continues to this day.
Obama has just won the US election! Great!
I wouldn’t say Obama’s re-election was so great. But we’re a broad church here. 🙂
treatygate.wordpress.com 
In this article
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8146905/Pa-Wars-hosts-fire-shots-over-Maori-job
it states that “the exclusion of candidates based on race could breach the Human Rights Act.” Could breach? I’d say it’s a certainty but I also would be willing to bet nothing will come of it. Just a guess on my part though.
(Well Ironsides – this is wayout ‘random’ but thought we’d let you know that we followed yr link to ‘Send Me an Angel’ and listened to it via laptop as we welcomed in 2013 with some flavoured beverages as we were on ‘storm watch’ with heavy rain in our corrugated hut/house. Thank you; was awesome.)
In the real world, you know one thing we wonder is why the other related groups such as One NZ Foundation, NZCPR, Constitution Alert don’t join up with ‘us’ Together NZ.
John Ansell is an awesome, articulate front person well able to handle crowds and interviews but less so administratively (possibly because he has too much on his plate and why duplicate what’s already well said elsewhere) which is what the other groups are and they have a wide readership.
They don’t have a John Answell (it seems) and need one . . . !
We need to get it together and activate public education before it’s too late — it’s scaring us what J Keys/Finlayson/Sharples will try and do in the next two years before election and how hard it will be to revert the Constitution if the scammers/corporate Maori have their way B4 election.
As someone else has said, the so-called ‘anti-smacking bill went ahead with 85% people against it – which doesn’t bode well if we make a ‘mild noise’.
We realise it’s fine for us to come up with ideas for ‘someone else’ to do the grunt but for some of us, work, living environment and low income preclude action – unlike people on a WINZ hand-out albeit they don’t hv much income (or may be solo/ parents with young children, disabled, unwell etc) but ‘some’ sure have disposable time.
Not denigrating those on a benefit as many are struggling …. just talking about fitting in “fighting” time into life. Like it would hv been ideal to picket outside the Nelson Museum if circumstances were different for example . . .
No doubt others have said this (apologise if so but feel so impotent i just HAVE to write this) but we really think a nation wide flyer into every letter box with just a few hard hitting facts about how we are losing control of our country in small steps by a self-serving minority of scammers heading us towards a country where inequality and debt is rife.
Website info.and addresses to the above groups on the flyer would help to get the ‘ball’ moving
More public meetings by John (and others) ….. also very important and essential. We can’t wait until the election in two years time; the horse will have bolted!!!
The more we hear/read it seems that NZ may be part of the UN’s plan to rule the planet (Article 21) now NZ has signed the Indigenous People Treaty . . . (it’s best you look this up rather than me explain if you aren’t already familiar with what it says) as I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box) – as it does answer some questions as to ‘why this is happening globally…… makes much sense along with Corporate Iwi aspirations.
Guess we’re speaking to the converted . . . kinda, sorta, getting the feeling that social unrest is what’s needed in reality as that’s brought about change in NZ in the past; dunno . . .
What’s needed for now is to get people talking on these boards again.
When we’re writing we stay sharp and focussed on what we say and others opinions, and we learn from them.
This article, although important was posted 37 days ago and now needs changing so we can all get typing our thoughts and gripes.
We need to get busy and start 2013 with something current, in the news that we don’t agree with, mostly about maori privilege and the GREAT NZ con.
So come on JA give us something to chew on.
Yes, Mary. I too think all of the different factions, NZCPR, One NZ etc should join together. It seems such a waste with us all going along separate paths but speaking the same language. We need as many on board as possible and the ability to bring even more on board until we have a huge majority all pulling in the same direction.
I also agree that we have to get a move on and get very vocal very quickly, informing the whole of New Zealand. We can’t wait until near the next election because mighty, possibly irreversible, damage will have been done to our country by then.
Thank you Mary and thankyou Marvin I was informed that Maori TV are not interested in screening the Voices From The Forest documentary that has a link above if one wishes to purchase. No surprises there I guess as it is about the Turehu race and Pre~Maori at that, they still survive to this day in small numbers( the true Indigenous people of our fair land ). Do they (Maori TV) have a vested interest in the status quo~you betcha I would guess in Agenda 21 or something else as well? I dont know but could have an educated guess. Perhaps word should be spread about this DVD to bring it all to the attention of the masses as a starting point ( great family viewing ) that the citizens of NZ have been well and truely conned and its all about to get a whole lot more flakey in good old Godzone by elected officials that make themselves sit pretty at the expense of everyone else.
This to me is a very good reason for action not the least the rolling of heads all the way from the top down in seemingly every govt dept.
After all How does the saying go? They made their beds time for them to sleep in it.
Yes Marvin there does need to be more action and I am sure John is doing his best as we all are to enlighten the masses, perhaps the fog of hangovers nationwide has lifted by now and action will soon commence one would hope anyway as it appears other sites wish to come together for the same cause TOGETHER NEW ZEALAND.
My apologies for drifting off topic from the thread again John Phillips.
Turehu and patupaiarehe were mythological spiritual beings, not actually humans – you do realise that? I guess some people are so desperate to convince others (and themselves) of the existence of a pre-Maori civilisation that they are willing to view fairies and other forest dwelling creatures as human entities.
Money !!
Guys, we all agree on the problem but what we don’t agree on is how to get this change. Whatever method is used will require money and lots of it.
This issue has to become a political issue. J.A has made it clear that it needs to rank higher in the “important issues” list. This can only happen with a careful and organised media campaign which encourages “average New Zealanders” to openly discuss the issue.
We all need to put on our collective thinking caps and arrange funding. Owen Glen for instance has openly commented about this issue. But we need a lot of backing !!
I also agree that all related organisations should combine into a collective force but time is of the essence…it has to occur before the next election.
I notice on the TV3 website the maori politics board has been stagnant for weeks. It’s sometimes interesting as I often put my gripes on the boards and they’re not always printed. I think it depends on who the sensor is on the day. One thing I have noticed is that there’s lots of people who say the same as us on these boards. The numbers are rising and people are getting more and more pissed off with what’s going on in this country.
I work for a government department and the pro maori bias is truly depressing. Last year Pita Sharples came to my prison, and to hear him speak made me sick to my stomach; so racist and most definately anti anything not maori yet no one says anything. That is one of the privileges that they have over us, freedom of speech even when if the shoe were on the other foot it would be racist.
Him and his disgusting ilk make me sick. And to hear non maori saying how much good him and Turiana have done for maori I find extraordinary and cowardly.
Maori are tangata whenua; Maori agreed to allow Pakeha to settle in this country (albeit, under the false pretences of the British) and let them govern over their own people in order to bring the unruly Pakeha – who were drinking and causing distress to Maori at Kororareka – under control. Maori did not cede their soverignty and agreed to rule in partnership with the Crown – something that was blatantly disregarded under the lie of the Pakeha signed version of the Treaty. Pakeha have been too used to white privilege and are threatened by the Maori Renaissance and our reassertion into every facet of society. The now tenuous position of Pakeha (due to the fact that the Pakeha misdeeds and lies of the past are coming to light) is treated with scepticism, fear and intolerance. This is simply something you have to get used to.
It’s really interesting to hear from you Marvin, and especially your comments about Government Departments. You just confirm our worst fears and what we hear over and over.
Yes, it is an utter disgrace what is going on. Let’s hope you’re right and many are starting to get fed up with it all and are becoming vocal about it. That’s definitely what we need.
I’m convinced many do feel like us but fear speaking out for one reason or another, especially those in Government Departments as their jobs would probably then be at risk.
Also interesting to hear from Kiwi about Owen Glenn taking an interest. If only we could get him to take ‘more’ than just an interest. Maybe he might be a potential backer. He certainly has the ‘resources’. Is he worth an approach, if he hasn’t already been approached?
Yes indeed more people are getting vocal but the numbers still need to increase dramatically for the appropriate and desperately needed changes to occur and the sooner the better for everyone.
To all the so called elite and wannabes a public broadcast message for you!
You have been watched for a very long time.
We see you and know what you are about.
There is another old and very true saying
Judge not lest ye be judged and yet even another of recent times
RETURN OUR FULL DEMOCRACY IMMEDIATELY in order for all of our forebears that gave the ultimate sacrifice to truly R.I.P.
The sun is almost in the magnifying glass, who will be the first of you to fry?
When the Public finally does stand up for their ever diminishing “rights” appropriate change will be neccesary very quickly to appease the grief suffered and endured for far too long now by the masses.
We do indeed live in very interesting times.
“Snap Election” time or . . .?
Peace, out.
Oh dear…are you worried that your “diminishing rights” will soon be comparable to that which Maori have always had? Google “white privilege” – perhaps you’ll learn something about your poor, downtrodden rights. You have no idea what Maori have lost – your ancestors came to this land, as they have every indigenous land, and stole, raped, spread disease and threatened the very existence of indigenous peoples. If you don’t like it, go back to where your people came from.
Just as a matter of interest:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8157691/Treaty-legal-aid-bill-hits-79m-in-six-years
Isn’t it just so despicable. Not only are we giving away millions in fraudulent (in many [most?!] cases) Treaty settlements but we are actually paying them for the pleasure of fleecing us left, right and centre. I find it totally unbelievable. It’s obvious this country is run by lunatics.
And it is not only the direct legal costs of Treaty claims we pay for. Research, consultants, arranging & attending most huis, lawyers for both parties, travel & other incidental expenses are all funded by the taxpayer. Whereas everyone else has to pay their own legal costs, often ruinously so. I am an example: I have recently come through a nasty & lengthy legal challenge to my position which I “won”, but now have to sell almost everything I own – including my home – to pay legal costs. It is outrageous that Maori groups are funded by the taxpayer (the Crown) to make claims against the Crown, the settlements of which are also funded by the taxpayers. If that is not corruption, I don’t know what is.
Hear, hear, John. It’s total corruption in my view – and all based on race. That’s not what the REAL Treaty was all about!! It’s long overdue for us to get rid of absolutely everything to do with race.
I’m very sorry to learn that you are going to lose so much just to fund legal costs. Thank goodness you actually won, otherwise it would have been a double whammy. I do hope you manage to recoup but it will depend on your age and whether you have enough working years to do it. Good luck!!
I sincerely hope that one day a full investigation is undertaken to expose this giant con and that it is brought to a halt; but like world peace that’s just an idealistic dream, sigh.
Now that is something I wouldn’t mind taxpayer’s money being spent on, Peter C. Let’s hope our idealistic dreams come to fruition!!
A full investigation is absolutely essential but we won’t hold our breaths waiting for our corrupt sleazy politicians to initiate it. It will have to be left to our new leader who is going to abolish everything based on race and put this country back on the track the real Treaty started??!!
Thanks for the support Helen. No, I am working to limit the damage, but I won’t recoup anywhere near all the losses; I am over 60, with limited earning potential these days. I have certainly learnt a lot about the basically corrupt nature of our legal system. Justice doesn’t come into it – just argument and counter-argument; all very costly once barristers etc. are involved. Actually there are a lot of parallels with the Treaty settlement /rort process. I also support Peter C’s call for a full investigation. I believe that Finlayson’s actions are little different from the fraudulent behaviour of some of the most crooked finance company directors, but no doubt he is operating behind the protection of some sort of immunity – at least for now. That needs to change.
If an investigation was to happen then it would be done by maori or pro maori affiliates and the outcome would be known before it even started.
Call me cynical, but that’s what NZ is like now.
Everything is geared toward maori and giving them presidence and pride of place of everything over all else. Even PI’s are now enjoying special privilege over white NZers.
I’m from the UK and have been here for 11 years, but from my observations and perceptions, I and my family are the bottom of the list. White born NZers are 3rd class citizens in NZ.
I agree Marvin. In my opinion it would need to be done by someone or a group from outside New Zealand. That’s the only way we could trust that it would be unbiased. There must not be anyone of Maori descent or New Zealand born anywhere near it otherwise it would be a waste of time and money.
But then, I suppose Judith Collins, would then have it peer reviewed like in the Bain case, and re-done at even great cost if she didn’t get the outcome she wanted??!! Call me cynical.
Helen, although I share your scepticism over whether the whole Treaty gravy train issue could ever really be reviewed fairly, I happen to think that Judith Collins had no option but to reject Justice Binnie’s report in the David Bain case. C.K. Stead neatly sums up what the report got wrong in this Herald artcle:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10857352
Back to our core subject, I also worry that anyone outside NZ just does not have enough knowledge of the ToW & Tribunal background and history, and are more likely to end up siding with the UN’s unbalanced pro-Maori idea of NZ race relations, and so make the situation far worse.
Given the likelihood that a review or Royal Commission is unlikely to be free of taint by the grievance industry and recent government trends towards endless appeasement, it is in fact unlikely that a review is the best way to go. The damage done now runs too deep. That only leaves us with a citizens’ initiative by way of binding referendum – or outright revolt. The now deeply entrenched beneficiaries of the corrupt system will fight back by any means rather than risk losing their free feeding trough, so it will not be an easy or quick process. But it IS urgent. The very scams and imbalances we detest have become so prevalent and established that they will be hard to root out, and the longer they go on the worse it gets. We can no longer count on basic political courage, so politicians must be made to listen – and act in the best interests of ALL citizens, which they are plainly failing to do at present. Opposing voices must increasingly be heard until they cannot be ignored and change happens. After change is achieved, maybe then is the time for an enquiry into past settlements and “findings” of the Waitangi Tribunal.
Any comments ? Almost everyone seems to have gone rather quiet lately …
I think you are right, John P. Whilst all the history is there for an outside review, what we have seen so far with people with vested interests cherry picking what they want, and ‘misunderstanding’ (on purpose?) other things, nothing could be guaranteed.
We have to take back democracy ourselves and a revolt by the masses is probably the only way to change things. How to get the masses to take heed and revolt is the next challenge.
I will now go and read Stead’s article on Bain. I think I might already have and didn’t agree with it. Justice Binnie said what an almighty mess the police made of the investigation and I think they focussed on David Bain right from the outset. It may not have even been Robin but they didn’t seem to look at that scenario. The burning of the house, with permission from the authorities was mighty suspicious in my view and destroyed any evidence that might have been retrieved for either side. Sorry, I know I’m off topic but had to answer.
a long article dude, Idespise propoganda ., we are so susceptble to it
How to get the masses to take heed and revolt is indeed the next challenge Helen. NZers are largely intellectually lazy and also shamefully apathetic, which is how the radicals make headway with their selfish agendas – just by filling the vacuum and persisting with the lies & distortions until they are at least partly believed by a significant number of people. Never a majority though – but as the majority is mostly a silent one, the damage can be done without too much opposition. The gormless young tend to believe whatever they are told without question, especially that all change is good. Just look at issues like gay “marriage”, largely supported by the young, largely opposed by the older age groups. Same applies to Maori issues – dishonest revisionist versions of many events has been taught in schools for the past 20 to 30 years.
The challenge is occupying the thoughts of John A at the moment and I’m sure he will come up with something very soon.
You are right, John P though, about what the people are like in this country. I find it even amongst some of my own friends. They don’t like what is going on but will not come forward and make a stand. We wouldn’t be in this mess if more had been vocal a lot earlier.
I even hesitate about being too forthcoming amongst some as I know I would be very quickly labelled in a negative way. However, if asked, or someone else brings the subject up I always give my tuppence worth so no-one is in any doubt about where I stand..
Good for you, Helen. I do the same, and it doesn’t always win new friends. A few years ago it would worry me to be called a “racist” but I grew out of that once I realised that it is simply an infantile ploy to shut you up rather than engage in any reasoned debate. “Sexist” is used in exactly the same way – no doubt I could think of others I loathe, most of which have the suffix “-ist”. Although I do make exceptions for “optimist” and “realist” – even “pessimist”.
Hi John –
I agree with the crux of your comments John but I can’t let what you’ve written pass without comment.
Because young people support an issue and older people oppose it doesn’t necessarily determine the validity or truthfulness of the issue. Older people can be as ‘gormless’ as the younger ones.
You’ve used gay marriage as an example of young ones believing that change is good and I agree with you – the young do ltend to like change for change’s sake, but with the greatest respect I strongly object to you using gay marriage as your example.
I believe issues regarding the truth of New Zealand’s history, which this blog is about, is a very, very different kettle of fish to interpreting the rights of who should or should not be allowed by law – God’s or Government’s – to marry.
The soaring divorce rates of generations of heterosexual New Zealand couples shows there is actually scant regard for the vows of marriage, so don’t tell me heterosexuals have some greater respect for it. Heterosexuals should clean up their own back yards, so to speak, before you preach to me thanks 🙂
What I like about what’s discussed on this blog is that it is mostly verifiable, fact.
Who should or who should not be allowed to marry is about faith and belief.
I know this may be a strong response to your comments John, but I have been in the same relationship for over 30 years – since I was 19. For a great part of that time we have had to pretend we were just friends – never making a wrong move that might give away the true nature of our relationship and never wanting to alienate our families. Never touching or showing any kind of affection in public, always a facade. Can you imagine the effect of that on a relationship? The pressure is immense! But we, and many, many others, through the same hard work as other couples of all orientations, have lasted. I don’t want to trample over your beliefs, but beliefs are beliefs and as such are individual. Whether gay marriage is right or wrong is not fact, it is belief.
Helen said : “I even hesitate about being too forthcoming amongst some as I know I would be very quickly labelled in a negative way. However, if asked, or someone else brings the subject up I always give my tuppence worth so no-one is in any doubt about where I stand.”
I do likewise but even then I get called a racist. It’s almost impossible to broach the subject without being called a racist because the nation has been brainwashed into thinking that to even question (let alone oppose) the Waitangi Tribunal and/or its findings makes you racist. That intial barrier is going to be a heck of a challenge for those who support equality; to change that mindset won’t be easy.
However, to try and fail is better than to fail to try and I am always emailing people snippets regarding multiple “full and final” settlements and they respond with “Oh, I didn’t know that…..” etc etc. So many people are not aware of what is going on under their noses and a minimalistic national education program via a box-drop of leaflets would help, I’m sure. It might at least get people thinking, which isn’t happening much at the moment.
I totally agree with you Peter C. The media are very much at fault too because they just don’t report what is going. If they do mention things, they always go to great lengths to promote the ‘Maori’ side, so it ends up with snippets of what’s really happening and then a lengthy opposite view.
The Fourth Estate in this country is a complete failure by and large. Glimmers occasionally appear but they are few and far between.
TV could also enlighten us with items on the likes of Sunday or 60 Minutes but they are failures too. In fact the whole television programming department is impossible to understand. There is nothing of substance on apart from the odd decent programme now and again.
We could do with a Q+A or The Nation programme during peak viewing if only to get people thinking about what is happening in this country. Instead they put them on first thing on a Sunday morning!!??
I agree, Helen – but we should not hold our collective breath that our infantile, US-centric TV programmers will suddenly grow a brain and undo the damage they have done over the years.
Also agree with Peter C about a well-organised leaflet campaign alerting the public to a few easily digested hard facts. And then it would need a follow-through, not just a one-off that is soon forgotten. But a warning: if the campaign must be fronted by someone (and it probably must) – that person will need to be someone the irresponsible media cannot easily ridicule and undermine – because that is what they will do, as they have been doing for many years now.
If only white New Zealanders didn’t feel so guilty!
It always amuses me how they shuffle their feet , advert their eyes and seem to have to “own up” to the terrible things “they” have done to Maori
There is no need. Yes, our forebears raped occupied and pillaged…and so did everybody else in those days….Maori included.
Is the whole of Europe going to demand compensation from Italy because they got shafted by the Romans ? How far do you go back in time then ?
You are so right, HW. I too am equally amused and puzzled. Actually I don’t feel at all guilty because I haven’t done anything, and I’m sure my ancestors didn’t either. If anything I’ve always been accepting and nice to different ethnicities.
However I feel whatever anyone did or didn’t do, people of Maori descent should take stock and think. They should look at the likes of the Islands and ask themselves, if New Zealand hadn’t been colonised by civilised people, wouldn’t it be much like those places – more likely the Solomons which I understand isn’t at all well off.
Instead of blaming us for their ills, they should have grasped what we offered with both hands (many already have – I’m talking about the grievers) and upskilled themselves so they would be able to lead good productive lives by their own efforts. They would be so much happier which would mean we all would be.
As JA & others have said before, a savage stone-age race was taken rapidly from a nasty, brutish existence to civilisation, peace, prosperity and order in a very short time, and have benefitted from the process ever since. And they have never said “thank you”.
All they (the Grievers) have done is moaned and groaned and called us everything under the sun. What a thankless mob to put it mildly. They have no appreciation at all of what a great life the colonists brought them. I’m sure they never stop to think how it all might have been otherwise. ‘Thank you’ doesn’t enter their heads.
And, JP, it would appear from statistics that the brutish behaviour (in some) wasn’t taken care of with the stroke of a pen. This message did the rounds of the email world a wee while ago and it was sent to me with the note; “So much of this applies to NZ.” I don’t know enough about the crime statistics to draw a comparison but I can understand some of the sentiment and there appear to be common threads. It would appear NZ is not alone when it comes to racial hiccups and Maori certainly have not suffered anywhere near as much Negroes. Sorry for the lenghty post but I thought it pertinent.
BUCHANAN TO OBAMA
By Patrick J. Buchanan
Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America .. Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation.. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to…. This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And among them are these:
First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.. Jeremiah Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.
Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream. Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks — with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas — to advance black applicants over white applicants. Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all overAmerica have donated their time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.
We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude??
Barack talks about new ‘ladders of opportunity’ for blacks. Let him go toAltoona ? And Johnstown, and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for ‘deserving’ white kids…? Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and incarceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America ? Is it really white America ‘s fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?
Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?
As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?
Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?
We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena . And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.
Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars ago. This needs to be passed around because, this is a message everyone needs to hear!
Thanks, Peter C. I’ve read that somewhere before but it certainly rings bells doesn’t it. Perhaps we are wasting our time with all the special treatment and should just get on with our lives.
Everything is there for anyone to pick up and if they don’t want it, then that’s their loss. Maybe a new tack should be taken – a take it or leave it tack. You can take a horse to the trough but you can’t make it drink.
Billions and billions have been spent and still the negative stats rise. Perhaps we haven’t emphasised enough that only they can lift themselves up by their own efforts. Education, motivation and aspiration are the keys. Underachievement is no-one’s fault except their own. They wallow in the false notion that everyone else is to blame for their failure and it’s just not true.
In my neck of the woods there is a ‘Social Justice’ committee in my church. They have control of the parish mag and constantly publish Socialist and Communist propaganda. Sadly the bishop supports this despite such principles being contrary to official Church doctrine and theology.
What is always apparent is that those who have less in the way of money and possessions are always portrayed as ‘victims of the system’ and are ‘oppressed’ by it. It matters not what decisions and actions they may or may not have taken in their lives. Those who have more are ‘oppressors’ by definition and have only achieved this by oppressing and effectively stealing from the ‘oppressed victims’. Those with more are portrayed as callous and selfish parasites.
Last year they ran an entire years worth of writings on the ‘rights’ of people to have ‘meaningful and well paying’ jobs. It is the governments responsibility (apparently) to provide as of right a well paying and meaningful job to every citizen who wants one. No where in the entire years worth of writings did they even once state that workers actually need to get out of bed and get to work on time every morning, work diligently and honestly for all of the day and then get up and do it all again tomorrow. And the next day. And the next year.
Such griever, whining attitudes are also prevalent amongst the griever Maori and form the foundation of the mess our country is in.
That is it exactly, Mike KvL. People must be responsible for themselves. Granted, people do from time to time do have bad luck or a hard time through no fault of their own but that should inspire them to pick themselves up and do what is necessary to get back onto their feet.
Sitting around at home, whining about being hardly done be just won’t do it. We who are able-bodied, should all be responsible for ourselves. What a different country this would be if we had many more self-sufficient people.
It is an attitude that begins very early. The same people are those who could not be bothered to get a proper education when it was on offer to them as children & teenagers. They thus saddle themselves with a handicap that lasts for their whole lives. Rather than learn anything from that lesson, they are encouraged to believe its not their fault, and that they should be compensated for what they feel they deserve and are missing out on. The whole Waitangi grievance industry is based on exactly those delusions, as is much of Social Welfare.
Yes, John P. I blame the parents who should know from their own impoverished circumstances, the value of getting educated so as to achieve in life. They should then instil in their own children that to get ahead, they must work hard, getting an education and aspiring to do well. The parents should vow that their children won’t be as badly off as they are and do whatever it takes to make changes for their benefit.
The Asians can do it, so why not people of Maori descent or anyone else in impoverished circumstances. Many Asians come from poor circumstances but the parents do what it takes to ensure their children get a good education.
We have to stop allowing ourselves to take the blame. The blame rests fairly and squarely with those impoverished people themselves. No-one else. They are oppressing themselves by their inaction. Everything is freely available to the young.
Very easy for the ignorant self to compare one ethnic group with another. No doubt Helen, you’re Tauiwi and probably one that passes judgement based on societal/cultural prejudices, as well as, misinformed familial and media influences, without actually looking at cold hard facts.
And if you think I’m Honky-bashing, think again.
Wherever colonialism has taken place, the indigenous people have suffered and a classic ‘white’ example of their destruction can be seen among the Irish.
Don’t expect a race of people to just assimilate on the say-so of societal expectations, especially an ethnic group that has been (and continues to be), persecuted for well over 150 years.
It is very hard for any minority group, not just Maori, to come to grips with surmountable historical losses amidst a society that has very little affection for them.
And I quote:
“Everything is freely available to the young”…. REALLY? Jesus woman you are a tard if ever I have come across one. Is education free? I don’t think so.
Go back to sleep.
The Irish have done very well for themselves with no handouts from the English. Last time I checked Ireland’s GDP per capita was higher than the UK’s.
Your point?
To deviate briefly, I did not respond previously to Kasbar, who chose to grind his own very large axe about gay marriage – so here goes.
Kasbar, you seem to have taken my brief reference to that issue as an indirect personal attack – it was not. I used the issue simply as a very current example of how easily the young are generally relatively easily persuaded towards holding opinions along “liberal” lines as compared to more mature people. Note I say generally – nothing that is generally true is ever 100% true. As for gay marriage, like many others who are opposed to the notion, I understood that virtually all equivalent rights etc. seen to apply to heterosexual relationships are already available for gay relationships by way of civil unions – for those who want them.
Note I say “relationships” rather than marriage, because one point wilfully overlooked in this debate is that unmarried heterosexuals don’t have all the same rights & benefits that married ones do.
Kasbar, I am glad that you did not resort to calling me a homophobe, which is certainly untrue. It is interesting to note that certain prominent gays also do not approve of gay marriage, and are even less enthusiastic about adoption by gay “parents”.
Sorry that this is so off-topic, and I won’t be drawn into any further discussion on the issue of gay marriage. At least not on this blog.
Helen, I completely agree. Its not only Asians either – most European immigrants come here and make their own way, often having to start by overcoming a language barrier.
John, thanks for replying – I appreciate it.
I agree with you, this is not the blog for a discussion on the rights or wrongs of Gay marriage which is why I have never mentioned the subject myself. It is fair game though, to agree with or challenge any opinion that’s put on this blog and it was you who made reference to it, not me.
Calling someone a homophobe is used in much the same way as calling someone a racist is used. Just to dismiss and ignore an opposing argument and it’s not a term I use.
Anyway, as John Ansell said recently ‘it’s a broad church’ – or something like that and so, on with the show.
Thanks Kasbar – yes, on with the show. I agree entirely about the calling of names – a very low grade way to stifle someone’s opinion, and of course we on this blog are all very familiar with that ploy !!
Glory to god on high. Peace over this land, and goodwill to all people.
Such vehemence should prevail in the hearts of people for things that have happened in the past. Lets be proactive people and not reactive.
A grandson of Taranaki Maunga
All people. Proactive. Yes, Rangiroa, I agree.
Look at all you honkies on here.. Amusing.. Because you can not find the history in a book or it doesn’t show up when you google search means it does not exist. Yes, the film was an over exaggeration and I understand you feel it was quite biased, but I think the woman who wrote the review was quite biased. It seems that everybody thinks it is some kind of victory to colonize and “help” the natives bc “they don’t know what the f they’re doing”. Fuck off you ungrateful fuck wits.
Thank you Sally for so effectively highlighting the racist attitude of our opponents.
Everyone, anywhere is entitled to give criticism on any subject they choose – if they happen to be about Parihaka then at the very least research the subject thoroughly and know your facts.
If you have read Ask That Mountain and Days of Darkness then you will have a sound understanding of how the government approached Parihaka during that time and this will help form a balanced view rather than soundbites, piecemeal news and wild assumptions