Claudia Orange, Te Papa Treaty Debates, Treatygate

Te Papa Treaty 'Debate' tonight – let's give them one!

Te Papa Treaty Debates - Finding a Place For The Bogus Official Treaty

The publicity for tonight’s Te Papa Treaty ‘Debate’ says “My Voice Counts”.

So I’m going to take them at their word. I hope you will too.

Let’s show Dame Claudia Orange and the rest of the one-eyed, Maorified elite that we will not tolerate sham public ‘debates’ in which the public’s views are not tolerated.

Te Papa is “Our Place”. So let’s have “Our Say”!

The ‘Debate’ is in Soundings Theatre on Level 2 and runs from 6.30 – 8.00pm.

The theatre is likely to be packed, so I suggest you get there early.


78 thoughts on “Te Papa Treaty 'Debate' tonight – let's give them one!

  1. Mike, what an absolutely brilliant piece of writing. You have put it EXACTLY how it is. I’ve never heard it put so well before. So precise, not too long and hitting the nail right on the proverbial head. Full marks!!

  2. Mr_E_Nuff and Anytimenow are probably JA in an attempt to whip his apathetic followers into a feeding frenzy. It seems to be working. How did Thursday nights debate with Dr. Claudia Orange go? I notice that ‘Only My Voice Counts A la Orange’ has been pulled from this blog. I wonder why?

    Owen Stuart, that’s really interesting that you have quoted that right wing neo-Nazi organization ‘One New Zealand Foundation’. Just goes to show doesn’t it where you and your fellow travellers sympathies really lie.

  3. Wow! Andy Oakley only 38,903 suckers have signed NZCPR’s ‘Declaration of Equality’ I would have expected 390,000 signatures by now. They’ve been banging away at it for a year now. Maybe the 80% majority that JA keeps harping on about isn’t really there.

  4. Ngamoko, I think you will find that 38,903 signatures would be enough to get a Binding Citizen’s Initiative Referendum underway in Switzerland. Would be a good way of finding out which way the direction this country could take.

  5. Ngamoko,
    Thus far, as Moana Jackson stated at the so called debate the only public notice of this attempt to ramrod a constitution based on the TOW has been given to are invited maori in their own marae. The vast majority of New Zealanders have no idea of the attempt to get this constitution based on the TOW written into New Zealand Law, When they realize it for what it is, an unbridled attempt by a minority racial group to seize power thru the legal system I would think the numbers will be no problem.
    To call other people racists, from a group that wants NZ law written to suit one group defined by their racial make up really is quite pathetic,
    But after the behaviour of some of the people at the so called debate is to be expected.

  6. Don, this is New Zealand not Switzerland and in New Zealand Citizen’s Initiative Referendums are not binding. Seems a waste of time to me.

  7. Ngamoko,

    The numbers will count in an election though, and any party that supports this constitution, when the intent of it becomes known will perhaps regret it. And by the time the various groups get everyone up to speed on the direction this constitution will take the country, rather than just invited groups, then the numbers will count. It is still supposed to be a Democratic country. Although it would appeat that, according to Moana Jackson the constitutions of Bolivia and Peru will form the backbone of our new constitution. That will go down well with the majority, when it is made public knowledge.

  8. ‘Let’s Give Them One’, says JA. Did you really give them one JA? Or, did Dame Claudia give you one? Why has JA’s latest comment on this blog ‘Only My Voice Counts! : Debate a L’Orange II’ mysteriously disappeared only a few hours after it was posted. Maybe it was because you didn’t have enough supporters with you JA. So much for the 80% support you claim to have. What a joke!

  9. Owen, you’re correct the numbers will count in an election provided any pro-NZCPR political party crosses the 5% threshold to secure a seat in parliament. Don’t forget Maori have already 7 seats in the bag.

  10. Ngamoko,
    Yes that may be a hard hand to beat, but by no means impossible. When people realize, and I admit that may well take some doing, what is involved in this matter of TOW constitution, they will stand up and be counted on the contrary side.

    If that happens, we may well treated to at last being rid of these race based seats, where privelege is gained by political blackmail, a real example being the way Tariana Turia threw her toys out of the crib because Helen Clarke and the labour party had the spine to make a decision over the seabed and foreshore that was good for all New Zealand, not just a race based few. Then more blackmail by the new Maori party to get the National party to rescind that legislation, It really would appear to have been a one issue party and is in the process of self destruct right now. Whanau Ora cannot by any means be classed a roaring success, and has certainly opened the eyes of many as to the results of a TOW based constitution would likely be.

  11. Owen, I would agree an almost impossible hand to beat considering Maori businesses are reported to have an estimated asset value of $39 billion. That’s a substantial economic stake that Maori have in New Zealand’s economy, and not ignoring, the enormous political clout that comes with it. Any political party that tinkers with the Maori seats will soon discover just how much political clout Maori have.

  12. Are you in La La Land JP? If more apathetic New Zealanders are coming to the same conclusion as Mike then poor old JA wouldn’t have been hung out to dry during the debate with Dame Claudia. Where were JA’s supporter’s last Thursday night? Cowering in their beds I suppose. No wonder JA’s last post ‘Only My Voice Counts! : Debate a L’Orange II’ has disappeared from this blog because he doesn’t want to be embarrassed by the lack of support he received from you people.

    80% support alright! What a joke!

  13. Ngamoko,
    Well if that is the way things are going to go one consolation will be that maori will have to repay all the money that Findlayson is throwing them, the real economy, the one paying full business tax rates, will not be able to be bled much more. Maybe we will even have the time to stage hikoi to parliament, and then again maybe not, I would imagine the new power brokers will be nowhere near as generous with welfare payments.
    Do you think we will see more of the happenings such as the wrong tribe maori jeweller on the West Coast who has been turning out greenstone articles for many years being blocked by such as the Ngai Tahu who now own all the greenstone? or will he have to do a three year indoctrination to change tribe to Ngai Tahu?

  14. A Consumerlink Colmar Brunton poll done last March showed 72.41 percent non-Maori thought Maori seats and Maori electoral role should be abolished.

  15. Interesting stat Trina but I can’t see the Maori seats and Maori electoral roll being abolished, at least not in my life time. Perhaps when Maori are 30% of NZ’s population and control 50% of NZ’s economy.

  16. In an earlier post I mentioned that my wife and I were to spend the day/night in Freemantle for Australia Day. What a marvellous time! Everyone we saw was in good spirits, we saw no trouble whatsoever, no protesters, no negativity, no politicians being attacked or flags being shot up. It truly was a day of togetherness, of (wait for it, drum troll please) equality! I am sure WA and all Australia for that matter, has its own share of problems and nowhere is ever perfect but the atmosphere in Freemantle yesterday was very positive indeed. If only there could be such celebrations in NZ for NZ Day instead of the constant bickering we see on Feb 6th. The day is so often hijacked by a self-serving minority and it is, quite frankly, shameful.

  17. Ngamoko, you say ” Perhaps when Maori are 30% of NZ’s population and control 50% of NZ’s economy”

    Is this how the maori population is going to be boosted.?


    By Lindsay Mitchell

    The high rate of New Zealand children born onto welfare gives rise to numerous health and social problems down the line, not least abuse and neglect. We now know thanks to a recent Auckland University study that 83 percent of substantiated child abuse and neglect cases concern children who appear in the benefit system before the age of two.

    There is an especial problem with Maori children. Not only are they more likely to be born onto a benefit, but they are more likely to have a very young mother who will have difficulty raising her child away from the sort of environmental risks that result in teenage parenthood in the first place; a dysfunctional family life, alcohol and drug abuse, family violence, transience, and crime. A strong correlation exists between the over-representation of Maori children on welfare and their marked predominance in many other negative statistics surrounding poor health and low educational achievement. Being born onto a benefit does not set them up for life.

  18. Mean Mouldy Mean

    Abo’s are tragic I would see them drinking VB and swearing and cussing and fighting.

    Turns out all both the aforementioned needed was a cuddle from tracer.

    Easy fixed. (I suspect that the) People on this site would gladly buy you a one-way ticket.
    *don’t forget to pack a raincoat.Wet season.
    [In case you can’t figure it out- the shame lies with you]

  19. Owen, you have missed the point. Maori are estimated to reach 21% of NZ’s population by 2026 and 30% by the middle of this century. Maori economic activity over the last decade has grown expedentially and continues to grow. The Maori economic asset base is estimated to be now worth $39 billion, up from $9 billion in 2001 and will continue to grow due to business links with China. This growth in both population and economic activity brings with it political clout which would make it extremely difficult for any political party to abolish the Maori seats in parliament.

  20. Hi Ngamoko

    All fired up for the New Year, I see, pity you didn’t find any amo during the holidays.

    Regarding the meeting held at Te Papa last Thursday and your comment:

    “Where were JA’s supporter’s last Thursday night? Cowering in their beds I suppose”

    Firstly, the people on this site and that attended the meeting on Thursday are not John Ansell supporters, they are concerned NZers of all races. They are just now be informed as to what is going on in our country by reading articles in mainstream media including radio and tv.

    I attended the meeting, I didn’t see a Maori man walking around with a blindfold on, so I am guessing you weren’t there.

    After the (all of the) audience sat and listen respectfully to the speakers, no matter how racist it seem to be, Dame Claudia opened the floor to questions.

    First question: I have listen to the speakers intently and most of what I have heard tonight is drivel, what a racist load of rubbish etc etc

    Second question: Something about her whakapapa being Irish and the Crown…. I believe she may have had a screw loose and not sure what side she was on.

    Third question: I am a fifth generation NZer and I am sick of my ancestors not being recognized….. racist support offered to Pakeha who finds that is grandmother had a tiny bit of Ngi Tahu….. etc

    Forth Question: How is this racist sovereignty you are after supposed to work in a multicultural country?

    None of the questions were answered satisfactorily.

    By this time Dame Claudia could see a rising tide of anti TOW being tossed at the speakers and called it quits.

    No polls were taken as to who was on whose side and so your comments are I’m afraid, lacking any ammunition. One thing was for sure though the majority of questions put to the speakers were against the motion put forward by ‘both’ speakers.

  21. “Dame” Orange is a disgrace to academia. Fortunately, there is a tide which is turning against her and her toadies, and we should bear in mind that she does not represent the voice of reason, or the thoughts of the majority of NZers. The democratic principle of truly equal treatment for all citizens is one that should never have been abandoned, and it will prevail again in the very near future. All that is required is that we the people just keep demanding a return to sanity and a fair deal for all without prejudice or favour.

  22. Hey JP I’ve got plenty of ammo bro! Unlike you I’m not firing blanks. So, where’s JA’s post ‘Only My Voice Counts! : Debate a L’Orange II’? Is he too embarrassed by the lack of support from 80% of NZ’s population?

  23. Tracer said: Colonisation has decimated the first people of Australia.

    Colonisation (or more rightly, colonists) has (have) also spent billions (yes, billions) on the Aboriginal race and continues to do so. The mining companies in Australia (whatever you think about mining) are taxed heavily and a fair slice of that taxation goes toward the betterement of the indigenous people. Often those who are the beneficiaries of that expenditure choose to waste it and cry for more but it’s not always the case. Many Aborigine people are doing well thanks to health, housing and education provided by (hmmm, let me see) colonists, or their offspring. Furthermore, many Aborigine people are employed by ‘colonists’ and you don’t have to be a genius to realise that simply throwing money at any given situation in the world doesn’t resolve any given issues. Give a man a fish etc. It all takes time. Education is the key and having worked in schools for ten years or more I can honestly say that Maori need to pull their socks up. Attendance, attitude and application are lacking in some quarters and some inward observation would be advantageous. When Maori and/or Aborigine people (or anyone else for that matter) apply themselves they can, and do, climb to great heights. Go to any school prize giving night and see how well Asian kids do. They apply themselves. I suggest Tracer that you apply yourself to something positive, rid yourself of that giant chip you have on your shoulder and you might just surprise not only us but also yourself.

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