Constitutional Advisory Panel, Te Papa Treaty Debates, Treatygate

Big banners for tonight's Te Papaganda Treaty 'Debate'


Thanks to those who’ve volunteered to hold these 3 metre long banners and risk incurring the withering glares of the Smarmy Army as they head into tonight’s Te Papa Treaty ‘Debate’ on the Constitution.

We were in the middle of printing the ‘Trickery’ banner above when one of my clever-clogs supporters mused that ‘Treachery’ would be a better description of what the appeasers have been up to for the last 40 years.

Damn, I thought, he’s right. So I got that one printed too. The good thing is, we’ve now we’ve got one for each entrance.


Do come along at 6.30pm. (But preferably earlier, lest you be crowded out by the Claudiophiles.)

I’m sure the assembled Constitutional Advisory Panel members will be delighted to chat with you as they enter and leave the building.

I do not intend to disrespect them, but I would like to ask them some questions.

Questions like:

  • Prof John Burrowes: You told me last week that your panel is almost certainly going to meet the general public.  Given that your role is to find out what the public think, why are you treating the public as some sort of afterthought?
  • Sir Tipene O’Regan: Why are you still co-managing a panel charged with examining the core of our national being, when you have also been charged with mismanaging a finance company?
  • Leonie Pihama: You recently tweeted after I appeared on Maori TV (advocating racial equality) that I was a “redneck” and a “racist”. And then you said “We can debate their [racists’] views without them present!”

    Is that the agenda of the Constitutional Advisory Panel — to debate constitutional matters without the majority of New Zealanders present — people you regard as racist?

  • Dame Claudia Orange: How can you call these one-sided discussions ‘debates’ when all ‘debaters’ are from the same side?

23 thoughts on “Big banners for tonight's Te Papaganda Treaty 'Debate'

  1. “Treachery” is a much better word, although both are true. I have no new questions, JA – they are all there already on your blog threads. But one that needs to be asked is “where is the public consensus for changing or replacing the name “New Zealand” – which has been in use by all races since 1645 ?” You can probably word the question better …

  2. Maraes are breeding grounds for the illness we are trying to cure. Hopefully one day we’ll see the last one close its doors. Don’t be surprised if hundreds or even thousands of angry NZ patriots turn out to this ‘debate’ to support the anti-apartheid contingent. This movement is going from strength to strength despite vilification and persecution. Last year’s meetings were just the first signs of a mass fightback.

  3. 5 questions

    Why don’t the Ngati Hotu and Waitaha peoples with their white skins and ancient histories discovered by Kerry Bolton Martin Doutre and Barry Brailsford respectively get considered the true indigenous peoples of NZ.

    Why is DOC and teams of soldiers/police systematically destroying ancient Celtic observatories and cities in our countryside?

    When is Bastion Point the piece of land stolen from Auckland developers by Maori rascals going to be given back and developed as housing?

    Do you agree with Louis Crimp’s straightforward statement that Maori were savages and had no real culture ie no culture worth saving before Cook arrived. And if so – why celebrate this dead and evil culture by recognising the language as official, staging barbarous poferees etc etc

    Do you agree that Maori wardens should stand up and start using their legal powers to remove any intoxicated Maori from a pub ASAP and thus do something to help this race which suffers from alcohol abuse

    Do you agree that NZ is an apartheid-Nazi state with the Maoris playing the role of bronwshirts and the Maori leaders like Pita Sharples as Hitlers.

  4. NZ Apartheid State, while I agree with several of your points, can I suggest that you tone down the references to Nazis & Hitler – they are as inflammatory as some of the maoriphiles squealing “racist” and “KKK” at every comment of ours that they don’t like. I agree that the propaganda & brainwashing we are bombarded with do have strong parallels with techniques used by the Nazis (and Stalinist Russia), but the use of those labels just results in a knee-jerk tit-for-tat response.

    Also, the pre-Maori setllement issue is an important one and should be pursued vigorously, but it needs it own thread, not as some sort of distraction on this one – which is about the Treaty and its continued misuse to gain more & more Maori privilege.

    I do agree about the anachronistic existence of maraes everywhere, many of them on the grounds of publicly owned institutions and funded by the NZ taxpayer. They should be abolished, along with the Maori seats in Parliament.

  5. John respectfully how do you think themassive conspiracy involving literally 1000s of historians archaeologists museum workers and civil servants to hide NZ history and the activities of paid agents is embedded in a wider indeed global conspiracy? Do you think something this huge could be done in NZ alone? Of course not. So we need to understand the threads. That’s why I mention the 9/11 hoax. And guess what the same heroic reserchers who are exposing for eg the Littlewood Treaty as genuine here in NZ are working on international hoaxes like 9/11 – exposing them too! So I say the issues are all connected. Just look at Martin Doutre for more info on both Littlewood and the 9/11 hoax. It’s all part of one huge conspiracy.

  6. But I’m glad we agree about getting rid of maraes. They have to go. I admire the way that after the liberation of Parihaka from Maori terrorists the marae was flattened. And when Sir Robert smashed the terror camp at Bastion Point in 1978 he also flatenned the marae there. A good model I think we can agree!

  7. NZAS. I do think the current issues in our country have certain links.

    There is an international group of socialists who for many decades have worked to dumb down education in western nations and eliminate the concept of any kind of independent thought and question process. By dumbing down the masses and feeding them with false or exaggerated crises eg Global Warming, they pretend that they and only they can provide a solution for these crises and lead the world forward. Their mantra is ‘We will look after you’.
    They spread their influence through increased taxation and charges on the productive and stifle innovation until even productive hard working innovators are so bled of return on their endeavours they become dependant on welfare to survive. Thus when any opposing organisation talks of cutting welfare, the immediate reaction of an ever increasing number of people is ‘but that will affect me!”. A deliberate and very effective vicious circle

    Their ultimate aim is complete Global governance.

    They are involved in our current racist issues, but I don’t think they view it as an end itself, their support of Maori racism is more of a useful tool to help distract those who hanker for freedom and personal responsibility and they use it as an alternative way of bleeding the productive so that more and more of their effort is required to be focussed on survival and less time can be devoted to fighting the global governance beast. The Maori issues are a smoke screen.

    Nevertheless they are not the only force moving in the world. I think you are on a seriously incorrect tangent with your 9/11 theories. There are huge number of reasons why I think this is so but not the place to discuss.

    I think it’s important that on this blog we stay focussed on the issue it is concerned with – the ever increasing separation of Maori and non Maori into a first and second class citizenship in our country that can only end in tears.

  8. The comments made by “apartheid state” worry me. Is this person for real or just trying to discredit the site. Could it be the Hepi woman with a new strategy?

  9. Alarmed – I am pretty sure NZAS is actually ‘fairgoforwhites’ who was banned last year for his/her white supremist allusion’s.

    He/she is stepping over the line . . . . Again.

  10. Good evening all

    While I am sure JA will deliver a full report regarding the tonight’s Te Papaganda meeting I will give you a quick rundown of my reactions.

    SHOCKED would be a good way to describe my feelings as the meeting progressed, then ANGER as I realised what was going on and SORROW as I realised our young are being coached to hold false beliefs about our past. Similar to how many religious sects behave, well any religion really.

    There was no debate, yet again the audience had been hoodwinked as to what was to take place at Te Papa tonight. We had four very articulate but unfortunate young people who have had about 15 years of NZ education, our onesided curriculum has caused them to believe it is a good idea to make our whole world revolve around the TOW.

    Not that it should matter, usually it wouldn’t, but at least three of the four were of Maori descent. I wondered why it was important for them to state their race or bring race into it at all, I can only think they thought they had something to gain from it. I certainly don’t begin any chat I have about our constitution with “I am Scottish”, so why do you think they did?

    This education has also taught them to believe Maori are special in many ways and we should let them rule our country either on their own or in some partnership. They didn’t mince their words either, like Moana Jackson did the week before, no, young Julia was particularly aggressive with her racist attitudes. Saying that she found middle aged Pakeha men were the main group that reacted to her racist views with disdain.

    Young Julia had Kim Hill, the one sided compare, firmly on her side as anyone who even muttered under their breath any words which did not fit with the racist agenda was told off and even made fun of.

    Some of the posts above this (NZAS) cut a bit close to the bone in terms of their racism, and make me uncomfortable. But I tell you, when you are subjected to the unbridled racism I listened to tonight and any attempt to offer a different point of view is STAMPED OUT, it most definitely does feel like Nazi Germany.

    I said it last week I will say it again:


  11. Thanks Andy, just doing my account now. It was certainly a tragedy to witness the level of brainwashing among otherwise intelligent under-30s.

    To win this one, I think we’re going to have to rely heavily on the over 60s who remember when New Zealand was, for the most part, a racially harmonious society.

    The useful idiot factor seems to be very strong among young non-Maori, and young Maori would seem to have an outrageously inflated idea of their own importance.

  12. If anyone was under allusions as to the true nature of the positions put forward hear,one only needs to read ‘NZ Apartheid State’.

    “The authors of these lies are clearly using the techniques of Adolf Hitler.

    Hitler said if you’re going to tell a lie, make it a whopper, because people only expect their leaders to tell little porkies – like the people do themselves.”

    These words from your Dear Leader himself. Word of advice, if you wish to appeal to ordinary NZers, making any allusions to the Nazi just makes you appear totally like irrational conspiracy theorists (but then of course some of you are quite open about that).

    I mean to do get that most decent people would find the allusion to what is taught in our schools and universities as being the ‘techniques of Adolf Hitler’ to be deeply offensive?

    Speaking of conspiracies, given that you seem to believe mainstream history taught in schools and universities is a lie, and that it’s so widespread is due to a conspiracy by the liberal elite’. Please point me in the direction of the scholarship upon which you base your ‘truth’. A simple link will do, to a book, or anything that’s properly researched and refers to the relevant documentation.

    As lovers of truth, I’m sure the will be very straight forward.

  13. Andrew, I urge you not to regard Apartheid State as typical of the people here.

    I think I banned him once before for going too far, and he is again embarrassing his fellow commenters.

    However, when you get the likes of Tariana Turia talking about British-initiated holocausts in Taranaki, when the only Taranaki-related mass killings remotely worthy of that term were committed by Maori – the Waikato invaders of the early 1830s and the Taranaki tribes who ‘holocausted’ the Moriori, the Big Lie analogy is fair.

    And the Big Lie principle, as far as I know, was first articulated by Hitler.

    To condemn an idea as offensive simply because some twisted tyrant thought of it is ridiculous.

    The tyrant concerned was able to mesmerise and corrupt a normally sane nation – and continues to have the run of the History channel 67 years after his death – so he obviously knew a thing or two about how to manipulate human behaviour.

  14. Hi John, I,m keen to see your interview tomorrow if I can, what time are you expecting? By the way tonites “Debate” was a disgrace, I wonder why there are no media reporting on such a huge issue. Anyway, good on you and we are all hoping to make a difference. Cheers Steve.

  15. Yes, I agree that the analogy is a fair one as far as the techniques of indoctrination are concerned. I think it was more Goebbels than Hitler who perfected the various ingredients of persuasive propaganda. They also understood that gullible young minds are the easiest to manipulate, which was the driving principle behind Hitler Youth, and the removal from teaching positions of anyone who had different views than the approved ones. Actually, as I write this I realise more fully how chillingly familiar it all sounds – the parallels are inescapable. Older people are experienced and mostly sufficiently independent of thought to know better, and therefore are the natural enemies of the social engineers and self-serving revisionists. What a nightmare our country is headed for.

  16. Steve Carson; We can only asume it is because either the media have (like John Key) no balls or they’re (like John Key) in on the con. I can’t believe what is published under guise of ‘news’ these days, it’s mostly badly written drivel and most likely controlled by entities with agendas. Oh dear, I sound like a conspiracy theorist…..oops, I meant to say “observant realist”.

    John Phillips: Quite right. Action is needed sooner rather than later but getting the message to the masses won’t come easily or cheaply. A wealthy benefactor is required, preferably one with a high and popular profile.

  17. Where’s your 80% support from NZ’s population now JA? As you say the only support you can rely upon is the ‘geriatric generation’ the young generation don’t agree with you. Treatygate and Colourblind campaign is stuffed. BTW I used to teach NZ History in New Zealand secondary schools before heading overseas so now you can vent your anger on me for being partly responsible for telling our children the truth about the history of our country.

    JA: The older people are, the less likely they are to have been brainwashed with Treatifarian tripe. I think that’s a fair assumption.

    I don’t look down on older New Zealanders as you appear to. I’ve spoken at a lot of Probus clubs, Rotary Clubs and U3As and regard that generation as the finest, most courageous and most honest New Zealanders.

    It saddens me that as the members of that generation passes away, so does a disproportionate share of our collective integrity.

  18. John,

    I see you’re still happy to leave the suggestion that mainstream NZ history & education is the equivalent of Nazi propaganda tactics in place, but you might want to rethink that one.

    I’m assuming you’re not a stupid man, and understand what usually happens to people who start comparing things in a liberal democracy to the Nazis?

    Also, you can scream LIE to the cows come home, but if you want to be taken seriously then you might want to back it up with research, research that that would stand up to scrutiny.

    The accusation that the mainstream history taught in our Universities & schools is a lie is a very big call. It also implies an enormous conspiracy on the part of historians. .

    Given that, I would assume that robust scholarship that reveals the truth would be relatively straight forward, given that the evidence available should lead to the truth if treated fairly.

    I therefore assume that there is scholarship that stands up to normal academic standards that backs up the positions you put forward?

    I’d be more than happy if you could link to it, or point me in the direction of where I can find it?

    It’s a simple and straight forward question, and one I assume you can answer with little difficulty.

    JA: Andrew, there is abundant evidence on this blog for those who are not so blind that they refuse to see.

    To equate New Zealand academia with truth is laughable.

    New Zealand social science degrees are rated least valuable in the OECD for a reason.

    That reason is that so many of our academics have dedicated themselves to pushing a political agenda rather than discovering the truth.

    Sadly, Elizabeth Rata is an exception. The rule is people like Margaret Mutu.

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