Treaty of Waitangi

Who will join me at Waitangi on Tuesday?

JA and Anon. in front of Treaty House

Will you stand with me at Waitangi?

If we want the same rights for “all the people of New Zealand” (a promise contained in the words of both the Maori Tiriti and Hobson’s recently-discovered but state-suppressed final English draft), the proper place to demand those rights is the place where those words were signed.

In the cradle of our democracy, Waitangi.

And the right day to make that demand must surely be the day of the Treaty commemoration.

And so, next Tuesday the 5th of February (the day when all the political events happen), I plan to exercise my right as a citizen of a supposedly free and democratic New Zealand to assert my rights on the Treaty House lawn.

Will anyone be there to listen? I don’t know.

But for my own peace of mind, I need to know that I made the effort to stand up for the nation that my forefathers built.

I intend to spell out precisely how the Treaty has been twisted by the forces of self-interest over the past 40 years.

And I will assert my right to be treated equally — a democratic right confirmed by the Treaty.

Whether my government will ever give me that right, I don’t know.

Whether John Key will ever agree to run New Zealand as a democracy, I don’t know.

But over the next two years, I’m going to give him every encouragement. 🙂

JA and Hobson - Okiato

Hobson and friend at Okiato, where he and Busby
wrote the final English Treaty draft, lost for 149
years, found in 1989, then hushed up by the state.

Last year, I visited Russell, Okiato, Paihia and Waitangi to see for myself where the events of 1840 happened.

Events like the writing of Hobson’s draft at the home of US Consul James Reddy Clendon at Okiato.

JA at Tamati Waka Nene memorial, Russell

At the church in Russell, pointing to evidence that at
least one chief understood Maori were ceding sovereignty.

And places like the memorial in the Russell churchyard to the great Ngapuhi chief Tamati Waka Nene, “the first to welcome the Queen’s sovereignty in New Zealand.”

(Contrast that with the claim of today’s Ngapuhi that Nene and his fellow chiefs did not surrender their sovereignty.)

This year, knowing a bit more than I did then, I’m going back to shoot a video in those places, record what really happened (not the official state fantasy), and put it on You Tube.

So: who wants to come with me?

(Time on Tuesday to be advised.)

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30 thoughts on “Who will join me at Waitangi on Tuesday?

  1. I agree with the previous comments about Iwi not being political in any way, shape or form. Glenn, they should be more like the clans of Scotland. You belong to a certain clan but that’s as far as it goes. They don’t have any control over our lives, political or otherwise. It’s more of a social thing these days.

    Also, I’m sure you will agree that laws should not be made specifically for any one ethnic group so I’m not sure exactly why you would need to go through all the laws.

    It’s not really too hard to think this thing through and even though you are very busy, you should be able to come to a definite view while you are doing other things.

    It really would be good to have your more specific input so we can see where you are coming from and why your views differ from our aim of equality for all under the law.

    1. Hi Helen, sorry i have only just realised this comment was here. Sorry for the delayed reply.

      I will try to give you an example. I know one thing that probably bugs a lot of people here. It is the lower pass marks required by Maori to gain entrance in to university. To be honest I struggle with this too. But Dr Lance O’sullivan was accepted in to medical school on this basis & he has by all accounts become a wonderful doctor in the north & is apparently doing great things. Without the lower entrance level Dr O’sullivan may have been lost to us & i think that would have been a great shame.

      So i can definitely see the pitfalls of this particular scheme, but i also see a benefit. This is why i would need to study all of the laws in question to give my opinion on all of them individually & cannot at this time give a blanket response.

      So are you going to Waitangi?

      1. Hi Glenn

        I have to disagree with you strongly on this.

        There are no benefits to allowing people with lower marks into our medical schools because of their race. The fact that “apparently” Mr O’Sullivan is doing great things, doesn’t make race based selections ok.

        While Mr O’Sullivan may have been lost there may have been a more qualified person in his position doing even greater things. These are the laws of nature and why humans have been successful as a species. To suddenly change these laws and allow the weaker, less capable, triumph over the stronger will result in lower than possible outcomes.

        You may not think that’s a big deal until it is you who suffer the consequences and start looking for the reasons.

        Like Moana Jackson likes to say “I can imagine”

        •The All Blacks losing to Sri Lanka because they chose their team based on race and not form i.e. they chose only Europeans

        •Scott Dixon comes last at Indianapolis because his team chose to run on Tyres produced by the local Iwi and not Hoosier.

        •Kenya beat NZ at the sevens at home… oops bad example

        I am sure you get my point.

  2. Mike KVL I think you have laid out very clearly what the problem is People will always club together for a common interest but those clubs/tribes/religions or whatever should never have special recognition at the ballot box as such a thing is antidemocratic and devisive and only leads to problems I think this really is what most people want but it is very easy to get bogged down with detail and side issues instead of staying with the main thrust. Once an unjust concession is made then a precedent has then been set in place for futher injustices and we have seen a lot of that
    The 100 days system of democracy that the Swiss have has a lot of merit to me The people there have the power to keep politicians in check without hamstringing them

  3. I can hear what you are saying, Glenn, but that argument could be applied to anyone of any culture. It is unfair that we don’t have a level playing field and certain people are given a special chance because off their ethnic make-up. Good people of any culture are often not going to make it because of a certain criteria.

    Working harder, having parents who instil a sense of achievement into their children etc, will work wonders in many cases when otherwise there would be negative results.

    Again, I can’t see what difference delving into the laws will make. We are either an equal society under the law or we are not. Special treatment based on race is racist and, to me, totally unacceptable. Equality is just that and nothing else.

    I live in the South Island so won’t be going to Waitangi. I would dearly love to support John and hope many others who live nearby will do so.

    1. I too can hear what you are saying Helen, i did say i could see the pitfalls. But again i can see an upside. I am sure there would be other examples, but again i just don’t have time.

      Hopefully, you can make it to Waitangi next year then.

  4. Glenn, The problem with your example is that we don’t know how many appalling doctors there are that got through because they were treated more leniently. It would be a pity if people avoided Maori doctors or any other Maori professionals because they were concerned about their level of training.
    With the right attitude Maori are just as capable of meeting whatever criteria are required to enter medicine or any other profession.

    1. Hi Alarmed, special access schemes only assist Maori to enter the programme. Once they are accepted they should be held to the same standard as the other participants & i believe in some cases they agree to an even higher standard. Again i can see the pitfalls, but if we can get more doctors like Dr O’sullivan then i would not be rushing to oppose the schemes.

      1. I can’t speak for medicine but I am aware of different standards being applied for Maori in other fields.
        It is also highly likely that special priveleges and easier entry are actually being granted to Maori who do not actually need the help. If you look at Maori scholarships as an example often they will go to the offspring from wealthy middle class Maori families. Also why should Maori be special why not Pacific Islanders, Hungarians, Indians or any other group.
        Read the post outlining Elizabeth Rata’s views. The only way forward for NZ including Maori is for us all to be equal under the law and people helped based on need not race.
        I firmly believe that this would actually help Maori in the long run.

  5. Glenn some further thoughts. There is an ethical argument here also. For example if someone stole a boat and then happened to save someone who was drowning does the positive outcome change the ethical position that stealing is wrong?

    1. Excellent question, if i was the owner of the boat i would be happy that a life had been saved, but yes theft is still wrong. However if it was my own life being saved, theft is still wrong but my life being saved may negate my feelings about the initial theft. Then if it was my daughters life being saved theft is still wrong but i would be ecstatic that the boat had been stolen. Complex issues. Are you heading to Waitangi Alarmed?

      1. Hi again Glenn. Just to make the issue slightly more complex what is the situation if the next 10 boats that are stolen do not have any positive outcome or worse one runs over and kills a swimmer?
        I know this is a bit abstract but I am just trying to illustrate that sometimes good outcomes are achieved by wrong initial actions.

        The example you quoted is known as affirmative action and the jury is certainly out on whether it achieves good outcomes either for the group being helped or society at large.
        For example there are only a limited number of places each year at Auckland Medical School. If more highly qualified applicants are left out to make room for less qualified Maori students then the likely outcome is less doctors qualifying from the intake. (The less qualified being more likely to drop out of the course).
        So less doctors are produced than would have otherwise been the case resulting in the shortage of doctors we face being more acute.
        The unforeseen consequences of this might be that if a relative of yours is admitted to hospital with a serious illness or injury their treatment may be less than adequate if the hospital is short of doctors at the time.

        Unfortunately I will not be able to attend Waitangi.

  6. Go John Ansell. You will get your day and you will be heard. The broken record response of “Poll the public” is a great comeback, and them who are savvy enough will see it.
    You are a very brave man on a mission to save NZ from its apathetic self destruct. I suggest flying your banners from high above national landmarks in our biggest cities to draw attention to the cause of the 85%ers with no voice. Godspeed and God bless to you.

  7. But perhaps Glenn the greater question is: Should the thief still be prosecuted for the theft of the boat? And in the situation you described the doctor you mentioned assumed his place at the expense of another arguably more worthy. If that persons more deserved career was ruined by your doctor then that is hard to justify. Perhaps its a little like the boat being destroyed in the process of the theft and the accidental saving of the drowning person. The owner is the innocent victim and the person who suffers the loss. Who compensates the owner of the boat?

    1. Hi Mike, again if i was the owner of the boat that was destroyed but my daughters life was saved i doubt i would press charges.

      I think you make a better point with regards to another student missing out. This is not a desireable situation. But i would still not rush to abolish the scheme as i feel that Maori in our area are more likely to visit a Maori doctor. I don’t like it, but that is just the way some people up there think.

      Hopefully Dr O’Sullivan & others like him can educate more people about the benefits of good healthcare.

      I would like to add that Dr O’Sullivan is not specifically targeting Maori. His target is anyone who feels that they cannot afford to visit a doctor, but in that area that is mostly Maori.

      1. Glenn if you do not like the fact that Maori “up there” think that way, how about doing something to change their atitudes. Instead you think it is easier to change the atitudes of the entire country to think their way.

        The quality if medical care has got nothing to do with someones race. If the locals think it does I would like to know why.

        Can you tell us?

  8. Hi Glenn.
    I would like to expand on the points made by Andy.
    The reason why the most qualified candidates are chosen to proceed with training is for the best chance for the most capable doctors to come out at the other end.
    When you start to play around with that and let less qualified people in, not only do you unfairly impact those who miss out but you introduce an element of dumbing down into the system.
    It’s all about odds. You might get lucky with your Mr. Sullivan. He may turn out to be as good or even better than the alternative for a number of reasons. But when this process gets repeated across a number of people statistics kick in and you can’t beat them. You end up playing roulette and you play it with peoples lives. Outcomes head south and sooner or later people die whose lives would have been saved by a better doctor.
    What if THIS life was your daughter?

    1. Hi Mike, I have faith in our medical system & our universities, so i believe that even with slightly lower entrance qualifications the Doctors that are being produced should be of the highest quality. At some point i am guessing i will need put my life in their hands, so let’s hope i am right.

      My wife & my daughter have already been in a position where i needed to trust our public health system completely & i was elated with the outcome. I know that this is not always the case, but personally i am a big fan of our public health system. It is far from perfect, but i have only a good experience with it.

      i think we have gotten a bit sidetracked, i came here to encourage you all to head to Waitangi, but i appreciate your thoughts & the interaction. Tena koe.

  9. Hi Andy, i am not sure i understand your question completely. But i think you are asking me why some people in the North choose to avoid medical care. Am i right? I honestly don’t know why they choose to do that. But they do, we would need to ask more people who have avoided doctors in the past to get a clear answer. I believe it is a combination of perceived poverty & distrust, but this is just my opinion.

    I think you misunderstand me, i don’t think i am trying to encourage the country to think the way i do. I am merely offering my opinion, that i was asked for.

    I have stated before that some day I do hope i will be able to do something in the North to help, but now is not the right time.

    I actually came here to encourage you all to head up to Waitangi, but got sidetracked with this discussion. We have wandered a bit off topic, but still a good interaction i think.

  10. One point that seems to have been overlooked in this discussion re Maori entry requirements to Med School ….. or for that matter, any area of tertiary study, is that regardless of entry criteria, all students will sit the same exams and either pass or fail. There will be no less qualified graduates.

    1. I don’t think that has been overlooked. I have experience where that was not the case where Maori students were marked more leniently than others. Admittedly this was not in medicine and one would hope that the same standards are applied in this field. The point though is that for every Maori granted entry to med school with lower qualifications someone with higher qualifications misses out. This will likely result in fewer graduates as the less qualified are more likely to drop out.
      I have no idea what the actual numbers are but what if 50% of those granted easier entry did not complete the course?
      This is not only unfair to the public (less doctors), those that missed out on entry but also to the students who drop out themselves as they may have done well with less demanding courses.

      1. You make a very good point Alarmed. It would be interesting to actually see drop-out rate statistics because that would definitely raise some serious ethical questions surrounding the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme (MAPAS). The reason that I commented on this issue is because my eldest son entered Auckland Uni Med School under the MAPAS “umbrella”. He was one of 120 students in his class. In his final year of Med School he topped both “Surgery” and “General Practice”. My wife and I attended a special award ceremony organised by MAPAS to award him as top student in “General Practice” and, after the ceremony, we had the pleasure of talking with some of the Med School administrators and professors. They confided to us the vital importance of young Maori and Pacific Island doctors pursuing careers in the “front line” of community health as GPs. This is due to the the appalling health stats for Maori and PIs and the urgent need within both ethnic groups for “family doctors” with whom Maori and PIs communities can build trusting relationships. Too often Maori and PIs are reluctant to use doctors outside their ethnic group for cultural reasons …. and, unfortunately, don’t seek medical assistance until their problems have advanced beyond treatment.

        I support JA’s campaign wholeheartedly but as a “non-Maori” married to a PI I can see both sides of this issue re tertiary admissions. We have another son who is entering university this year studying Medical Science who also hopes to enter Med School in 2014 he also has backing from MAPAS.

        As a side note …. our eldest son has chosen to specialise in gynaecology which has culturally, of course, made him an important addition to NZ’s health service ….. also, he may have not required MAPAS support to have initially entered Auckland Med School as he was Dux of his school (the top secondary school in his Pacific Island home). However MAPAS were incredibly supportive throughout his training and, I’m sure, they continue to play an invaluable role for all Maori and PI students who seek higher education.

  11. Steve:
    I have a relative in the teaching industry who had Maori contemporaries in the class with her when she was doing her training.
    When exam time came around the Maori candidates were asked to remain behind. They were then told what questions would be asked in the exam and where to find the answers in their texts.
    The non Maori students had to swat the entire curriculum as they had no idea what would be asked in the exam.
    Still feeling so confident?

  12. Thanks Mike ….. I really enjoy reading all your posts on this blog.

    If that is indeed true then, NO ….. I’m not “feeling confident” at all. I totally agree that If any students are receiving that kind of favouritism then it’s simply wrong. Nobody calls that kind of caper “education”

  13. It’s really good to hear of a success story Steve.

    I am very pleased that hear that your (part PI) son has done so well. The truth is that a person with passion is of infinitely more worth to a vocation than a person with similar or even more talent but no passion.
    I also understand that the ability to relate to people ‘in their own culture’ can open doors to their lives that might otherwise stay closed. This makes for the possibility of positive education and assistance to people that might otherwise have not occurred because of a cultural divide on the part of one or both parties.

    But I have to say that I believe such programmes (in PC terms called ‘Affirmative Action’ in the States) can only be at best a temporary bandaid measure. They are utterly discriminatory in nature. The longer term goal must be two pronged.
    The first is to educate people, in this case both doctor and patient (to use a non PC term) to understand and relate to each other and their potentially different cultures, to be able to feel comfortable in approaching each other and in each others company.
    The second is to bring up the educational standard of those (of any race) falling behind. The long term goal here is to balance society so that ethnically a similar proportion of the makeup of society is reflected in most if not all of the sectors of the workplace. The critical issue here is that it needs to be done naturally and not by artificial means – and the only way is by ensuring that education is firstly, secondly and thirdly academically orientated and that failure due to the excuse of race is not an option.
    Once people of all races are succeeding at similar levels there then exists the genuine freedom for all to pursue whatever vocation they wish to. There is no shame for a brilliant academic to be a rubbish collector if they want but this should be because they want to be one, not because it was the only option due to a failed education.

    Treatyist Maori are extremely critical of the educational system of old claiming it tried to exterminate their culture. There may be a grain of truth in this but the real intent of the teachers and administrators at the time was to drive Maori forward academically. They knew that success both for individuals and society meant being focused on learning – an education within which cultures are largely irrelevant. 1 + 1 = 2 in any culture and the spleen in your son is in the same place as my white arsed body.
    Today in our Treatyist Kaupapa we seem to be turning out ‘graduates’ with the ability to make carvings, indulge in Kapa Haka and provide the obligatory bare-chested haka and Powhiri at the local Marae. I don’t see much else except maybe training in how to continue the Treaty claims process. I do not see much relevance to the real and modern world and little value to the betterment of society as a whole. But then I am just a stupid racist so what do I know?.

    The English may keep a small contingent of Beefeaters and cavalrymen for ceremonial occasions but the British nation does not go out en-mass, dress in ceremonial costume and practise formation drills and activities from centuries past. I suggest that no nation moving ahead does.

  14. Ronald Reagan tells it like it is in the most Diplomatic way yet can one find any irony in what is happening in our own fair land and the similarities of other Countries abroad? Time to wake up good people, be aware and act accordingly.

    Mainstream media in New Zealand and its lack of true investigative journalism and inability to reputably inform the public of what is going on around the globe while putting the warm fuzzies of spin in their coverage is well beyond the pale of that deemed fair and just to any right thinking individual surely.

    I know that my postings are not in relation to what is occurring here in New Zealand but the similarities of it all are really of concern to everyone around the world and as stated many times previously everyone needs to become a lot more aware of events by their own means as they sure as heck wont find out any other way due to the status quo and its far reaching control over every area of our lives that increases exponentially every day.

    It is well overdue that we regain control of not only our own wellbeing but that of our brothers and sisters around the world in the first instance and kick the corrupt to the curbside.

    Peace is paramount yet will never be achieved with the blinkers held tightly on the populace by the corrupt Warlords / people farmers of our World.

    Peace, out.

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