Dover Samuels, John Tamihere, Radio Live, Willie Jackson

Radio Live, Waitangi Day: chat with Chapman, scrap with Willie and JT

Thanks to Mr News, Vinny Eastwood of Guerilla Media, for making You Tubes of my two radio appearances yesterday — and one of listener comments below.

Radio Live listeners should now be aware that the pushback has started.

Willie and JT are clearly not used to being confronted with facts.

JT at least had the good grace to concede later that some of my facts were correct, and Willie told me I wasn’t a bad bloke after I introduced myself to him at Waitangi.

Good to know we can hold diametrically opposed views but still maintain respect.

I thought callers Kevin, Jean and David supported me exceptionally well, against the usual fare of put-downs and hang-ups by the infamous one-eyed tag team.

I was especially disappointed in the irrational behaviour of guest Dover Samuels in telling caller David that he must be from another planet if he thought New Zealanders should be equal.

Both Jean and David have since contacted me, and it turns out both had plucked up the courage to phone talkback for the first time yesterday. Good on them for going head to head with the bully boys and winning hands down!

I hope you’ll consider doing the same, because the bullies need to get the message that, in the words of the movie Network, “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it any more!”

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33 thoughts on “Radio Live, Waitangi Day: chat with Chapman, scrap with Willie and JT

  1. Tainui and Ngai Tahu scam the NZ taxpayer for hundreds of millions through bogus claims and an escalation clause and Cameron Slater says “good on them”?

    1. Were they really excellent interviews? I disagree. IMHO, they were slanging matches. John has a completely different style in the broadcast media, than he has in print. John generalises on broadcasts, where he makes case-specific arguments in print. The generalised stuff, is not convincing, sorry. Better to tell one story and tell it completely. than to mention this family, and that family and another, that none of us have ever heard of. Who the hell are the Wilson’s? for example. We are no wiser from the Wilsons mention, nor any others, than we were before the 8-minute Willie/JT engagement.

      Make a concise point, stick to it. Give complete examples, and don’t engage in rambling other stuff. Slick, slick, slick. Or the cause will be lost.

      1. Hang on, you make a good point but JA doesn’t control the interview and had to think fast to counter three people oposing views in an instance publically. Hindsight is wonderful but . . .

  2. Just listened to the interview well done John. Regarding JT’s allegation that the British Government did not bring Maori wrongdoers to justice context is indeed important. According to TeAra the Taranaki slaughter of the Moriori was in 1835 and Te Rauparaha’s invasion of the South island was in 1828 and well prior to the treaty and when the settler population of the whole country was only a few thousand.
    It was a rough place to be at that time which is why the missionaries were initially welcomed and why the treaty was a Godsend for Maori.

    1. Disagree. The uninformed (pakeha or Maori) listener would have been left completely bewildered by the confrontation, and would have been relieved when the squabble ended. Sorry to have to say it, because I am a great believer in the one law for all cause. Sorry, but Ansell’s engagement with Willie and JT, did more harm than good for the cause. Sorry, just not slick enough, JA, as much as I agree with everything you write, and everything you blog. It was rambling, and it was belligerent.

  3. Well done kevin Jean David and JA, that’s the best exposure we can get. Those two clowns are unbeleiveable with their blabberings, but you guys shot them down. 1 nil to us.

    1. Sorry, but if this thing is going to be won, we will have to do a lot better than the above recordings did. Only the truly ardent John Ansell fan would have been moved by John’s performance with JT. Brutal on my part, I know, but no point in being gay in our self-assessment.

      1. Yes I agree, John Ansell is a great wordsmith, but he has a habit of bit parting, losing the listener as he talks and not broadcasting simply with clarity for uninformed listeners. He has not developed easy to remember hooks.

        The Greens have little of substance going for them so they resort to clever sound bites and emotional tag lines. People get the meaning of “save the whales” because it tugs at the heart and is easy to remember.

        One other thing John tends to do on film is to come across as too civil, attaching humor to the end of an argument or closing with a little laugh.

        That comes across as a bit amateur, pompous and old white man for the average punter.

        John needs a series of factoids memorized to blast out parrot fashion so he commands the air time on top of the announcer. He is a great adman who dreams up brilliant campaign material but in my view he is not the person who should be at the retail broadcasting end of this issue.

  4. So what you are saying Graeme is that there was no mechanism or indeed ability for the ‘Crown’ to take action against Te Rauparaha because the Treaty did not exist to give them this ability?

    1. As I understand it given the dates of these actions there was no treaty and therefore no governance and certainly no ability to do anything even if they had wanted to.

  5. If Willy and JT had their way it would be the English that wiped out the Mori ori.
    They rave on about under priviledged maori, but those two don’t seem to have suffered much… racist twats.

    1. Thats what I meant when I said to Anakereiti on the old blog thread – “Its the people who you do not know of that you need to be worried about”

      You cannot fob off this campaign because of the number of ‘followers’ on JA’s blog. There are so many more who have not spoken up or presented their views, yet they are silently in full agreement with what JA, NZCPR and others are saying.

      NZ’ers know in their heart of hearts that things have gone too far.

      They know they are being totally ripped off.

      Willy and JT just did JA and other groups who are pushing back a great service.

      I found their arrogant cocky attitudes incredibly inflammatory in both youtube video’s.

  6. The mainstream media in NZ is full of skin deep hopeless amateurs like Wallace Chapman. I wouldn’t bother talking to them because they frame the debate, aren’t interested in truth and keep the scam alive.

    1. Sorry, but I don’t believe any damage was done to “the scam”, in the above recordings. We need to be brutally frank about this, or the cause will be lost. John, you are great in print. But you are not on air.

  7. Very good to get air time and you did well against Jackson and JT who are a media powerful,savvy self serving duo, but still – tediously racist and boring.
    I felt JT got you a bit off guard over Te Rauparaha.
    If you get back on you should have researchers to help you with the curved balls those two throw at you.

    Te Rauparaha was an old man by 1840.
    His killing fields were pre 1840.
    For JT to blame British law for the mass killings in 1821 of Maori by Maori demonstrates why those two radio jocks must be taken to task and silenced.
    Revisionist spin destroying this democracy.

    Te Rauparaha did sign the treaty thinking he could keep all the land he took off fellow Maori by murderous force.
    Even after signing he failed to cease his murderous ways and was finally taken into custody.
    He actually spent 2 years in British Detention from 1846 to 1848, was old and obviously unwell, but still shown mercy and allowed to return to his home in Otaki where he died in 1849.

    Mercy, the antithesis of Utu.

    This does not alter the sad fact that Te Rauparaha was a cruel duplicitous deceitful tribal sadistic megalomaniacal murderous cannibal.
    He was no great strategist,he just had guns where Ngai Tahi did not.

    Even Jackson and JT cannot deny that he coldly killed and ate the Ngai Tahu Chief Tamaiharanui after a prolonged torturous murder in custody. (Sources Chris Maclean “Kapiti” and^ Oliver, Steven Oliver Te Rauparaha – Biography. Te Ara – the Encyclopedia of New Zealand.)

    For JT to take the moral high ground for these events is the reason I can’t listen to their show. He is plane wrong and like some driven delusional evangelist is convinced he is an authority on everything Maori.
    If Labour drag him back from dead as Jackson keeps promoting, it would be just another reason why Labour are a spent force.

  8. I have the book “Stirring Times of Te Rauparaha” by WTL Travers published in 1872. Travers tells in chilling graphic detail just how evil this thug was and at a recent quiz night this murdering scumbag was referred to as The Napolean of the South Pacific!!!

    It shows how deeply flawed the accounts of NZ truly are and how massive the task is to turn it around.

  9. ” Tamati
    February 8, 2013 at 8:00 pm
    Graeme

    You might find this 2001 Waitangi Tribunal finding interesting concerning the 1835 invasion of the Chathams by Ngati Mutunga and Ngai Tama

    http://www.ipa.org.au/news/476/ignoring-sins-of-the-father/pg/5

    As I understand it, compensation to Moriori was to be paid for by the Crown without assistance from the Taranaki Iwi. How’s that for a “partnership”?”

    Thanks for that link Tamati it is absolutely mind blowing. It really shows just how corrupt the waitangi tribunal process is. Everyone should read this.

  10. I take your point, Tropicana.

    I would just say that in the heated environment of a spontaneous 2 on 1 against such bombastic hosts, my only goal was to give as good as I got and show listeners that I had confidence in my detail, even though I probably wouldn’t get time to spell it out in full.

    I hope that message got through to some people.

    My belief, you see, is that we don’t actually need to win these debates, only draw.

    Obviously I believe I can win.

    But if the worst that happens is that people realise there are two sides, but only one is being told, then they’re likely to say “This is more complex that we thought – let’s just rule off on the past and focus on the future.”

    That would be a win for us.

    1. I accept that you are already a hundred times better than I could have been in the same situation. Your growing depth of knowledge of the topic is a massive credit to you. Especially difficult-to-trip-off-the-tongue Maori names from history, comes across as amazing knowledge on your part.

      Not sure I agree precisely that it was 2 onto 1. Willie was reasonably accommodating of you – JT was not.

      But already, signs are that there is benefit to be gained from frank discussion, rather than empty platitudes. I like your last remark above about – that the point of the entire debate is to have people realise that there are two sides to the entire story. Worse things could happen that to start every engagement with this as the foundation. If this were to be the case, I suspect that my disappointment would be reduced, in comparison from the above remarks.

      Thank you John Ansell for being open enough to publish my side as well. It is a credit to you that you have allowed my comments to be seen by others. I will be in the minority, for sure. And your keen supporters are quite right to be in praise of your Waitangi Day achievements.

      For me, I would certainly prefer you to be doing what you are doing than not doing it.

      Please remember that most listeners/viewers know only one side of the story, and they need a primer-level introduction to the fact that for 40 years, we have heard only that one side. If in doubt in the midst of any given “heaviness of debate”, then rest assured that if you are in doubt, John Ansell, then so too in doubt will be your listener/viewer. So relate what you have to say to the listener/viewer rather than your (JT-type) opponent. In my humble opinion. We will get there. Don’t be put off by my boldness.

      We are far better off with what you are doing John Ansell, than without what you are doing.

  11. Tropicana,
    An excellent summary of events, and I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.
    Some one has to start the ball rolling among the great disinterested masses and hopefully John is that someone.

    Completely agree with you on WJ, he was reasonable, JT went straight for the jugular with some outrageous claims, Very hard to have all the facts to mind when debating with a professional griever, who has been at it for years.

  12. Have just listened to the talk back again, you know when someone like JT or Willie talk about ‘our Non-Maori” ancestors being at fault or that it’s ‘our’ judicial system that brought this about they need to be reminded that those non- Maori are their ancestors too!
    And whilst I don’t know their % Maori, what about the rights of their own greater % non-Maori ancestors, they’re ignoring and trampling on by their claim of foul play with their hand out.
    I have to say that it seems to be whether you look Maori that comes into play when people with a minority of Maori blood in them deny the greater part of their ancestry…… which i can understand to some point but the excesses of the claims made based on false principles defys logic .

  13. The issue with contractual law is that the writer or promoter of the contract has to be fair to the other party. The treaty provided two serious issues that now have to be dealt with. 1. Ownership – The treaty is a legal contract, it establishes rights and acknowledges ownership – in the absence of a treaty the ownership can be challenged but the treaty has clearly established that ownership and is acknowledged by all the signatories. By proxy it also acknowledges native ownership of non signatories 2. Consideration. Consideration is the value or rights provided in exchange. There are errors, misinterpretations or perhaps even deliberate variations between the English and the Maori contract. The Maori contract is what was read and understood by the Native signatories and therefore takes legal precedence over the English version. No amount of political huffing is going to make it go away. International legal precedents and law will eventually catch up. IF we don’t settle the grievances now – it will just cost more later. Accrued interest and further accrued grievances.

    1. Maori are claiming now (175 after the event) that their ancestor chiefs did not cede sovereignty.

      Many chiefs knew English. They were quite capable of writing letters and petitions to newspapers and Crown representatives when they had something interesting to say, or thought they’d been treated unfairly.

      Can anyone show evidence of anyone – Maori or Pakeha – complaining before 1975 (when the Treaty grievance industry got started) that the tribes had not ceded sovereignty, and had not intended the British to govern New Zealand?

      At the Kohimarama Conference of 1860, most or all of the 200 assembled chiefs expressed their gratitude in the most effusive way for the benefits their people had gained from colonisation.

      Transcripts are available of all speeches from that conference, and I’m not aware of any complaint by any chief that his tribe had been cheated out of their sovereignty.

      I’ve seen letters and petitions by chiefs complaining about other matters, but none about sovereignty.

      If there is no such evidence – if the tribes only started using that line in recent years – what would that suggest to you?

      To me it suggests that it’s a bogus claim invented by dishonest lawyers so they and their clients might profit from the Crown’s eagerness to surrender New Zealand to the descendants of those tribesmen.

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