Joris de Bres

Race Relations Commissioner: only 23% think I’m doing my job

What does it say about a Race Relations Commissioner when his own poll shows that race relations are deteriorating by the year?

I’ve been using the following surveys to support my claim that 80% of New Zealanders support total racial equality, and an end to race-based funding:

  • The 2011 Close Up poll where 81% of 40,000 texters voted NO to “Do Maori have a special place in New Zealand?”
  • The 2012 Nelson City Council referendum, where 79% voted NO to separate Maori wards.
  • The 2012 Waikato District Council referendum, where 80% voted NO to Maori wards.

My latest piece of evidence was commissioned by no ordinary commissioner.

It was commissioned by the Human Rights Commissioner’s commissioner for Race Relations, one Joris de Bres.

And Joris’s poll shows that he’s managing to achieve less and less every year.

(And note the cute excuses wheeled out by Joris and Dr Paul Moon for this massive failure.)

For the last five years, this is how many respondents agreed with the statement, “The Treaty relationship between the Crown and Maori is healthy”:

  • 2008 — 40%
  • 2009 — 28%
  • 2010 — 26%
  • 2011 — 25%
  • 2012 — 23%

Again, we’re looking at a 77% NO vote, with a 3.6% margin of error.

And that was before Treatygate. 🙂

81 thoughts on “Race Relations Commissioner: only 23% think I’m doing my job

  1. And still they’ll deny we need a poll and certainly won’t give us one because they know the answer. Doris de Bres is a disgrace who panders especially to maori across the board and should never have had the job in the first place. Like anything else in this country, it has to be either run by maori or pro maori. Being objective is racist now in New Zealand. You have to be absolutely pro maori to be fair.

  2. 2011 Close Up poll where 81% of 40,000 texters voted NO to; Do Maori Have a Special Place in New Zealand?

    2012 Waikato District Council referendum, where 80% voted NO to Maori wards.

    2012 Nelson City Council referendum, where 79% voted NO to separate Maori wards.

    What is interesting about the above statistics is that it’s Pakeha who are opposed, whilst Maori tend to be in favour of them. JA, you have focussed on Pakeha attitudes and are telling the story from their perspective.

    The 80% that you cite JA is problematic. Not only do the statistics refer to a portion of the population but they are also not a set of statistics that directly relate to Griever vs Achiever Maori. Local electors may well oppose separate Maori seats on local councils, but that does not mean that said electors necessarily oppose the Treaty process, or, believe that a Colourblind state is desirable.

    What you need JA are your own statistics rather than borrowed ones. Or, are you afraid that the 80% support that you talk about is not there?

    1. NN,
      If you want some relevant numbers go for the financial membership of the maori party, from some 20,000 a few years ago to now hopefully some 600. Must tell even you something.

      1. Again, Owen the reason why the Maori Party is in its death throes is due to the MP’s continued support of the current government and the rise in popularity of the Mana Party. Nothing to do with Treaty issues.

    2. NN, who said those polled were only pakeha? Your problem is if John said the sky was blue you’d claim it was pink ( or in your case probably brown). I really do hope you have given up teaching as you claim you were, because we don’t need racists filling our young with your lies.

      1. Ngamoko is actually the target of this-here comment, but I see replies are allowed only two deep. Or if you like this comment is in support of Stevo. Stevo, I notice that Ngamoko’s reply to you only attacks the man, not the ball, in calling you a liar. Ngamoko is wrong, and you are correct to point out the error in assuming that only pakeha were polled, in each case. In no instance were only pakeha polled. I agree with you Stevo, teachers like Ngamoko should have to get jobs in charter schools where they would be accountable for their performance.

      2. “In no instance were only Pakeha polled”.

        How do you know that Tropicana? Were you one of the pollsters?

        You’re detracting from the point of this debate. The focus of the debate is the statistics that JA is using to base his 80% support for his cause for a Colourblind state. He is using local body polls and a Close Up poll, unrelated to Griever vs Achiever Maori. As I have pointed out JA needs to come up with his own poll instead of using borrowed ones.

  3. So the fairest thing to do when having a poll is to only poll maori. Is that what you’re saying Nikora? It’s not a Pakeha poll but a national poll done on TV to the whole country who are watching at the time.
    You, like JT, are trying to use sophistry to obfuscate your argument, which is absolutely false.
    I don’t remember the polls asking only pakeha to vote as maori or part maori are banned.
    As always, yours and any part maori who promotes privilege as their right and is fair is completely fake. You and your ilk rely on the apathy and stupidity of the country and pull the race card when you’re wrong, which is near all the time.
    Do you really think that if they had a poll tomorrow that most of the country would want this race based treaty rort and the maori council, treaty tribunal, constitutional advisory board parasites? You must be living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that the case!
    If they did have a binding poll tomorrow all of the above would be gone the next day..period.
    The country is sick and tired of seeing your mates parade themselves on our TVs as respectful, upper class maori asking for anything that’s going to make them very rich indeed.
    Hear this and hear it well. Your representatives we see on the TV near every day are disgusting maori radicals who care only for their personal fortunes that they rip from a weasly government via the tax payers of New Zealand.
    They are vile people who deserve absolutely NO respect and only distain for the vermin they are.
    I’ve mentioned no names nor used any profanities, so there should be no reason this statement should be sensored.

    1. “So the fairest thing to do when calling a poll is to only poll Maori”. Well, that has been done Marvin. Mike Butler from NZCPR also polled Maori attitudes regards the retention of the Maori seats in parliament. His poll established that a majority of Maori favoured the retention of the Maori seats.

      So, stop behaving like we don’t exist.

      1. There needs to be a wake up call to all Maori that there are other people in society who are frustrated with the increasing supposition of Maori supremacy in our towns and streets.I see it every day on the streets of south Auckland and the other day in Hamilton ,maori young people spewing hate and vile racisim to Indian and Asian shopkeepers , this is the tip of a very big iceburg.

      2. A very relevant post George, the tribalists would do well to remember that this is now a multi cultural society, not a bi cultural as it used to be.

      3. So why should only maori be polled? You are a separatist and what you are saying proves it. JA’s argument is that we should all be one and no distinction should be made between maori and the rest of us. Of course maori will vote for maori things because it will benefit them, and disenfranchise the rest of the polulation i.e 85+ of us.
        I can’t understand how you can’t or won’t understand what we on this forum are saying.
        You obviously don’t believe in the democratic process and believe instead that 85% of the population should be marginalised in favour of the some elite maori oligarchy.
        So if the disgusting, money grabbing , parasitic, cancers of our country, the maori coucil and all the other separatist maori intitutions (who no one voted for) get their way and claim ownership of everything them dirty pakeha brought and built in this country, what’s your cut? I’m taking a stab that you’re just a lay maori who goes to work 8 hours a day for a nominal wage. So what will you get out of all these windfall billions for nothing, just because they’re part maori with great lawyers,who incidently are paid for by the tax payers too? I’m betting nothing whatsoever. So why on God’s earth (Not maoris earth) do you fight and argue for something that you will benefit nothing?
        As for JA putting out a poll. What a stupid statement to make! The man’s full of passion for what he believes and “NOT” full of tax payers hundreds of millions that maori seem to able to lay their grubby hands on whenever they want. He’s white, he’s not pro maori and believes we should all have the same and equal rights and privileges as New Zealanders, and no one should be given priority over another for their race or colour of their skin.
        So for that alone he’ll get nothing from this pusillanimous government.
        I think I’ve made my point.

      4. Wow Marvin! You sound like one angry griever to me. None of your rant makes any sense. JA needs to prove that he has 80% support for his Treatygate campaign and so far the only statistics that he can muster to support his 80% figure are local body referendum results on a completely different issue.

    2. “Do you really think if they had a poll tomorrow that most of the country would want this raced based rort…..?”

      So, why hasn’t JA commissioned such a poll?

      1. As for behaving maori don’t exist. You make up less than 15% of the population, yet your politics dominate our lives everyday.
        Your people fill our prisons to the tune of 52%. You dominate all the negative statistics in NZ. And the country pretends not to notice because…wait for it…they’re maoris and it’s the white man’s fault for all their ills.
        Your disgusting leaders say they will fix the problems of maori, but only if the goverment gives them hundreds of millions of tax payers dollars. Do they fix anything? No they bloody well don’t and have no intention of fixing a problem that the spineless government gives them hundreds of millions for nothing to fix.
        Willy and JT, Hone, Sharples and Turia suck on the tit of maori failure because it’s their excuse to bleed the country dry to fix the issue that they have no intention of fixing. In a nut shell they make their living, and a damn good living too from it.
        Mana, mana is a joke amongst your so called maori leaders. Money is what it’s all,about and nothing else. Money, money, money.
        And NZ apathy to stand up and be counted is a gift from the Gods to them same dispicable rorters.

      2. “Your people fill our prisons to the tune of 52%. You dominate all the negative statistics in NZ”.

        Which is why we have affirmative action policies Marvin. To turn around those negative statistics that you speak of.

      3. Well NN, why don’t you take your own advise and organise a poll to prove us wrong? Of course I know you wont because you are too afraid of the result.
        I also see you’re trying to turn the table and call Marvin a griever, nice try but no one is going to fall for that old trick, perhaps you’re not as smart as you think.

      4. Why should I conduct a poll Stevo? I’m not the one who is claiming to have 80% support for the Treatygate campaign and Colourblind state.

  4. Oh yes Ngamoko, your ‘racist affirmative action’ policies are REALLY working aren’t they??

    During the 50’s and 60’s, a time when all were treated equally, including your whanau and when many Maori parents were kicking their kids butts and telling them to get to school and learn, Maori stats were not too different to the average and what gap there was, was closing further.

    Then came the 70’s and griever Maori began to moan and whine. Too many of their whanau listened and began to believe they were a hard done by chosen race, deserving of special rights.

    Greasy politicians and weak minded do-gooders joined the train and got GP to legislate for this in the 1980’s.

    Now 30 years and several generations on, the rest of the country staggers under the cost of your racist policies while your whanau get a free ride.

    But guess what? Despite all of this money and privilege THE STATS ARE ALL HEADING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION JUST AS YOU WERE TOLD THEY WOULD 30 YEARS AGO. Your whanau have and are taking the opportunity to get lazier and lazier. Add this to the attitude that whatever isn’t Maori still belongs to them as of right and the soup you have cooked up is and should be of no surprise at all. And it can only get worse.

  5. Well NN, perhaps you’d care to enlighten us with your fabulous “Affirmative action policies”. What are they, how are they going and what progress have you made?
    By the way, which part of Marvins stats do you have a problem with, do you think 52% is too low?

    1. Whanau Ora is an affirmative action programme that is delivering health and social services to Maori. I’m not interested in Marvin’s stats, only where JA seems to be getting his 80% support for his Treatygate campaign from. You’re another angry little griever Stevo.

      1. So NN what you’re saying is that your “Affirmative action programmes” are racist maori only programs, designed by maori for maori and paid for by the tax payer. Have maori ever thought about using their griever money to fund their own programs?
        Now there’s a Tui billboard if I ever saw one.
        By the way, the 80% you’re going on about is not about Treatygate as you are well aware, once again you’ve been caught trying to distort the facts.
        Your nose must be growing larger by the minute and your lies are coming back to haunt you.

      2. I’m not saying that they are racist, you are. And Maori are tax payers as well. JA states as follows; “I’ve been using the following surveys to support my claim that 80% of New Zealanders support total racial equality, and an end to race based funding”. That is Treatygate, Stevo.

  6. Only 23% of people think Boris is doing a good job, well if you take the 15% maori vote out then only 8% think he’s doing a good job.
    Methinks someone should be looking for a new career option, coz he’s obviously hopeless at the one he’s got now.

  7. Can we leave this NN and his buffoonish posts aside for long enough to get back to the central point ? I am old enough to have noticed first-hand the progression – that Martin Doutre described so well in an earlier post on this blog – that has turned NZ from a small but high-performing country to one that is being divided against itself and bled dry – and is stuck in the quagmire brought about by years of stealthy PC revisionism. Or at least it started out as stealthy, now we are so far gone that these greedy wreckers don’t even need to be all that circumspect. They can make more and more preposterous claims and demands, safe in the certainty that too few will even bother to challenge them any more – least of all our politicians and judiciary. Just look at the utterly repetitive whinings of this fool Nigamoko as he desperately tries over & over & over again to discredit the importance of the “Littlewood” Treaty draft. It is crystal clear that the document IS signed by Hobson, and WAS drafted in Busby’s handwriting – and formed the text from which the final Maori treaty was translated. These are inescapable truths, which this semi-educated clown seeks to deny – although in fact I contend that it is all an irrelevant red herring anyway, because as so many of us understand: the Treaty has long ago served its full original purpose and should be abandoned as anything other than an historical artifact. I can see no other way for NZ to move back to being able to take its rightful place as a world leader in many fields, especially standard of living, and to again become a place that decent people want to live in, rather than to leave. We won’t do that by throwing more & more taxpayers’ money at hare-brained Maori-only schemes that typically all end in failure and achieve nothing worthwhile.

    1. You make a lot of over the top statements there JP. I will look each of your rants one-by-one in order to see who is really a fool.

      1. “..that has turned NZ from a small but high performing country to one that is being divided against itself and bled dry – and is stuck in the quagmire brought about by years of stealthy PC revisionism”.

      What proof do you have to support that statement. It’s an outrageous statement. So, you’re blaming Maori for NZ’s economic woes over the last 30 years. That statement is reminiscent of the Nazi’s blaming the Jews for Germany’s economic woes during the 1920’s. I think you need to look more closely at economic mis-management by our politicians, rather than placing the blame on Maori.

      2. “It is crystal clear that the document is signed by Hobson and was drafted in Busby’s handwriting – and formed the text from which the final Maori treaty was translated”.

      The first part of what you say is correct however Drs. Phil Parkinson and Donald Loveridge who both examined the document did not go as far as to say that this was the document that formed the text from which the final Maori treaty was translated.

      3. “…the Treaty has long ago served its full original purpose and should be abandoned as anything other than an historical artifact”.

      What was its original purpose JP? If both parties agree that the Treaty should be abandoned, then fine. But somehow I don’t think Maori will be so willing to abandon it just yet.

      4.”…. especially standard of living….”

      Here you go again making unsubstantiated statements blaming Maori for the country’s current economic woes. Are Maori responsible for the Global Fiscal Crisis? The last I heard it was greedy bankers that were responsible for the GFC.

      5. “…..rather than a place to leave….”

      The reason people are leaving New Zealand for overseas is employment and New Zealand’s pathetic wages being 30% below those of Australia. That is what is forcing NZers to leave in such large numbers.

      6. “We won’t do that by throwing more and more taxpayers money at hair brained Maori-only schemes that typically all end in failure and achieve nothing worthwhile”.

      Again, JP your mouth and emotions are getting the better of you. What proof do you have that they all end in failure? Whanau Ora started a few years back and is delivering health services to Maori and appears to be quite successful.

      I think JP you need to take a bloody good look at yourself. Your rant is unhelpful in this debate about how we should advance our country. I have never met so many angry old white men as I have on this blog. You’re all pissed off because no one is listening to you. Of course people aren’t going to listen to you. Your ranting and raving is turning people off.

    2. Well said JP.
      It is great to have other points of view here but a while ago I realised NN’s posts are the comments of a shill and these days I don’t bother to read them.

  8. In my view it would be a far more productive use of time to collect signatures on the “Declaration of Equality” than debating red herrings with NN. The petition can now be printed for those that do not have internet access. This petition has the potential to influence the politicians and make a difference.

    1. Why would it be more productive to collect signatures on the “Declaration of Equality”?

      Thus far only 40,000 signatures have been collected and it has been doing the rounds for well over a year now. Another 260,000 signatures are needed before the sponsors can call for a ‘Citizens Initiated Referendum’ on this issue. And even if the CIR goes in favour of NZCPR on the so-called declaration of equality the government still doesn’t have to heed its recommendations.

      Sounds like a waste of time to me.

  9. Go away NN, you have no reasonable argument and you are a separatist, radical maori who thinks the white man owes you everything. Truth is the white man saved you from yourself as you were killing and eating each other en mass. You’re not even indigenous to NZ and shouldn’t be given the privilege of that name. You and your people are ruining this country and costing it billions of dollars for nothing. You bring to the table nothing only your hands firmly out stretched for more money.
    The real truth is that maori contribution to NZ is negative. As a race your a failure and would certainly have died off if it were not for your “white colonial oppresors” saving you from yourselves.
    Strong words I know, but it’s the absolute truth of the matter.
    Your people can’t even stand up by themselves without special government grants and treatment because you fail at every level. Most maori celebrites have got there due to the maori card being played just because they’re maori.
    As a white man in NZ now one is a second class citizen due to your leader and our week as piss government pandering to your most disgusting and cancerous radicals.
    Truth hurts I know, but that is the truth of New Zealand.

      1. NN, you seem to think that being “old” – whatever that means in your mind – and a man, means you are somehow diminished in importance, and not entitled to be angry at all the crap that has been happening in NZ under the guise of the ToW and its adherents. OF COURSE WE ARE ANGRY – that is why we are here, whether or not we are “old”, or male, or not. And we are not going away.

      2. I find abuse unaccompanied by argument pathetic.

        For your own credibility’ sake, I suggest you always make a coherent point or your comment will be dismissed as a diversion.

    1. Marvin, I agree with everything that you have written. I am in the same profession as you. We probably pass each other in the corridors, and who knows, we might even work in the same wing. But we have to be so careful in this pc environment of who is listening that we toe the line unless certain we can trust who is in earshot. I’ve come across so many Maori prisoners with massive chips on their shoulders against anything the Europeans have brought to NZ and that grudge is perpetuated with anything to do with Maori culture teachings in prison. I have lived in NZ for over 35 years and in that time I have seen this country steadily go from being a wonderful egalitarian place to live sinking to a country infected with apartheid and it’s going to get much worse before it gets better. For obvious reasons I’m not putting my real name to this.

      1. Who destroyed NZ’s wonderful egalitarian society in the 1980’s Warthog? Sadly, it was a Labour government with a Neo-Liberal finance minister called Roger Douglas.

      2. NN, re R Douglas, there have always been haves and have nots, in simple terms life ain’t always fair.

      3. True, Warthog there has always been haves and have nots in society. But since Mr Douglas the gap between the two has grown expendentially. The middle class is now being squeezed out and joining the poor.

  10. NN, you say: ” And Maori are tax payers as well. ” If you insert the word “some” I agree. And I salute those individual Maoris who work and pay tax, along with the rest of us. You would probably find that quite a number of them feel equally annoyed by the siphoning off of tax money for greedy iwi and pointless projects like te Reo. And don’t start on Whanau Ora, which many commentators see as a completely unnecessary deal by National with Tariana Turia – and a failure to boot.

    Speaking of tax, don’t forget that many Maori-owned interests are taxed at a lower rate than anyone else – and that is not acceptable.

    1. “Speaking of tax, don’t forget that many Maori-owned interests are taxed at a lower rate than anyone else – and that is not acceptable”.

      Nor, is tax evasion and tax avoidance but many wealthy white folks are engaged in such practices, that to is unacceptable.

      1. NN, are you implying that only white people avoid paying taxes?
        your argument really is loosing traction and you are being seen for what you really are, a racist liar with no real argument nor credibility.
        Do you think it is fair that a maori could set up business in opposition to mine, and have the benefit of paying less tax? because I sure as hell don’t. I call that RACISM of the worst kind.

      2. Who are the tax avoiders and tax evaders Stevo? They are by far wealthy Pakeha who can afford to hire accountants in order to find ways to avoid, or, evade paying their fair share of tax. Why do you think financial comentators like Bernard Hickey describe NZ’s tax laws as having holes so wide that you can drive a bus through them.

        But, yet again we are digressing from the main issue of this debate that of JA’s shonky figures that he uses to support his argument that he has 80% support for a Colourblind state. Two local body polls and a Close Up unrelated to a Colourblind does not count as 80% support JA. Do your own poll.

      3. I have supplied four polls that all give the same figure. Perhaps you would like to provide some evidence of what you think the number is.

        Put up or shut up.

      4. “I have supplied four polls that all give the same figure”.

        Okay JA. Where are they? On this post you have supplied three polls. All borrowed ones that are unrelated to Griever vs Achiever Maori.

      1. Racheal, I no longer criticise the 17.5% Maori authority tax rate as I have been told it is just set at which most of the iwi pay tax, so no big deal.

        If anyone knows any different, let’s know.

  11. Over the last 5 years, I have had alot of dealings with the Human Rights Commission, mainly on matters re Transsexuals.

    I have found the HRC are heavily biased towards all things Maori.

    On my FB post yesterday there was a HRC Commisioner i know commenting. He was/is so proMaori it is unbelieveable. He was commenting as someone I know, not as a Commisioner so please respect that.

    Over the years I have laid several complaints re discrimination based on sex as a Transsexual and as a sex worker. The HRC has no bite and is merely a figure head. They have no power. I got told I had right on my side, it shouldnt have happened, it was wrong but all they can do is negotiate/talk. If the other party ignores them or can hide, they are stuffed and cant do anything.

    As a private individual and at a cost you can go to the HR Tribunial but when broke, who can do that. If the HRC believed I was right, why couldnt they take it to the Tribunial on my behalf? They have no money and no bite,

    They are a waste of time as their biase gives support and credibility to Maori instead of being fair.

    1. Very frustrating Racheal – and unfortunately very typical of a great number of organisations in NZ. Nobody knows how maorified they have become until they have dealings with them, and then they close ranks and use bullying tactics to isolate you and make you feel that you are the one with a problem. Very slimy.

  12. NN, seing that you are the one wanting facts, how about giving us some proof the majority of tax avoiders are wealthy Pakeha, remebering that we’re talking pecentages here, so don’t forget to allow for the 5% of maori that pay tax.
    By the way I notice you have’nt answered my question on the fairness of business tax, so once again, Do you think it is fair that maori can set up business in opposition to mine, and have the benefit of paying less tax?

    1. How about you telling me what percentage of Maori businesses are paying less tax than you? Stop digressing from the subject of JA’s magical 80% support.

      1. You still haven’t answered the question NN, what’s the problem? Obviously you don’t want to tell the truth so you avoid answering any questions that will show you to be a racist liar.
        You rave on about JAs 80% support, but you know full well those stats are about people wanting equality and no special privilege based on race. You don’t fool anyone, but you are a source of amusement.
        Answer the question or crawl back under your racist rock.

      2. How would I know Stevo wealthy Pakeha aren’t exactly going to put their hand up and admit that they’re a tax avoider or evader are they? We only know about it when they’re caught. But according to Bernard Hickey the figure that’s lost due to tax avoidance and evasion runs into the millions.

  13. NN, you have been proven time and time again to be a fool a liar and a racist clown, you refuse to answer the simplest of questions and like the griever maori you are, you make things up as you go to suit your your idiotic agenda. You fool no one but yourself.
    End of correspondence.

    1. I notice you haven’t answered my question either. What percentage of Maori businesses are paying less tax than you? That’s because you don’t know do you?

  14. I totally agree with Kasbar. Why does anyone bother responding to NN? He is just there to make trouble and his arguments are pathetic. I just ignore him and hope others will do the same. He doesn’t back anything up with facts because he doesn’t have any obviously, otherwise he would do so.

    I also agree with John P. Also, there are many people of Maori descent who could just as easily contributed to the poll. There is no way of knowing either way but my bet would be that because there are so many, the odds are that there was a real mix of people contributing to the polls.

    When I was collecting signatures on the Foreshore and Seabed issue, many people of Maori descent signed without hesitation, so I have no doubt they will have also contributed to the polls John has mentioned.

  15. I don’t think Ngamoko is a liar, but he is a very clever, evasive dude.
    His basic method of operation = Answer a question with another question.

    He raises the point that Maori would have to agree for the treaty to be scrapped; an unlikely event, as who would want to get rid of a gravy train.

    Below is a cut and paste definition timeline of “What is a Maori?”


    The use of “blood quantum” began when intimate relationships between Māori and Pākehā first began that resulted in the birth of “half-caste” children, that is, half Māori and half Pākehā. Further generations of continued mixed ethnic relationships resulted in changes in the degree or fraction of “blood quantum”. Prior to 1986 the New Zealand Census form required respondents to identify their “race” or their degree of blood in fractions to a specific “race” in order for the New Zealand legal system to be able to identify consistently the ethnic identities of Māori and Pākehā. Between 1874 and 1921 a non-Māori person was defined as being “half-caste” and living as a European or a person less than half Māori. From 1909 until 1961 a Māori person was defined as “a person belonging to the Aboriginal race of New Zealand, and includes half-caste and a person intermediate in blood between half-castes and persons of pure descent from that race.”


    The definition today has been diluted to, “One who is of Maori descent or believes or feels that he or she is a Maori.”

    So for more than 120 years Maori was limited to being a person having 50% or more Maori blood.
    It is doubtful today that any would qualify under those criteria.
    If parliament was to repeal the amended definitions from 1969 onwards then the Maori would cease to exist as a race and would survive only as a personal belief – which of course brings it into the field of religion.
    The treaty would then be invalid and all racial legislation could be removed from our (then) common laws.

    I have no problem with anyone calling themselve’s Maori, if that is their chosen religious belief.
    I do have a problem with people pretending to be what they are not – at the expense of others.

    1. “So more than 120 years Maori was limited to being a person having 50% or more Maori blood. It is doubtful today that any would qualifiy under that criteria”.

      That’s a brave statement that you’re making there Mitch so about you go and prove your hypotheses by doing a research project in your local community by getting a random sample of 100 Maori to fill out a questionaire in order to find out what percentage would meet the 50% or more Maori blood.

      1. “So for more than 120 years Maori was limited to being a person having 50% or more Maori blood. It is doubtful today that any would qualify under that criteria”.

        That’s a brave statement that you’re making there Mitch. Therefore, why don’t you go and prove your hypotheses by carrying out a research project in your local community by getting a random sample of 100 Maori to fill out a queationaire in order to find out what percentage would meet the 50% or Maori blood criteria.

  16. Mitch, if there wasn’t money in it, many wouldn’t bother one way or the other as to what they were. It wouldn’t be an issue and would pale into insignificance. They would happily celebrate both sides of their ethnicities I’m sure, whereas at the moment only one side comes to the fore. Money is the driver here.

  17. In the new census i am going to claim that i am a maori, even though i am zero percent maori blood. I will argue that i feel indigenous to this country so must therefore be a maori as apparently they are the only people allowed to be indigenous in NZ. Who will question my choice i wonder…anyone?

    1. Jonathan.
      Any body can claim they are maori for the purpose of political power, to get on the gravy train you must come up with some sort of whakapapa.
      I would favour Tangata Whenua European myself, my family has been here, on both sides, since 1850. Even the European part is ridiculous except for racial classification, never been to Europe so how can I be a European anything. How long before the census people realize how stupid their questions are?

      1. The thing is a black man can be a European, it isn’t a race rather a geographical location is it not?

    2. I am striking out nz European and writing indigenous white New Zealander in its place. Did think about ticking Maori but couldn’t live with myself if it resulted in more funding for Maori

  18. I always cross out the P word. It’s an appallingly racist term meaning ‘white skinned foreigner, stranger’.
    Why any NZer would happily call themselves such a derogatory term or allow themselves to be called it is beyond me.

  19. In the 2006 census, under the category of “Ethnic group – Other” you will be no doubt pleased to note that 429,429 Kiwis classed themselves as
    “New Zealander.”

    This seems to be one way of telling the government that most would like to see NZ united as one people.

    1. That’s very interesting Mitch, thanks.

      Of course that means the NZ European total, whatever it is, is seriously understated – given that most of those Others would be white/European.

      (Unless they bunch NZ European and Other together – which would be unfair to any Maori, Pacific or Asian people who ticked that box.)

      This reminds that former ACT deputy Ken Shirley (a former Trotskyite, by the way) used to call himself a Pacific Islander for census purposes.

      1. Just had an interesting suggestion from a friend.

        If we all put the above info (nearly half a million registering as “other” – “New Zealanders” on the census form) on our facebooks and send it to everyone we know urging them to follow suit then it may be possible to bring the number up to nearer 1,000,000.

        It would send a loud and clear message to the Government if nearly 1/4 of the population objected to being classed as European or as anything but New Zealanders.

  20. For some years now I have always put ‘New Zealander’ in the ‘Other’ box. So I’m one of those in the statistics. I will continue to do so this time too as will my husband.

  21. Great idea, Mitch. Let’s all do it. The Governments needs to be sent a message loud and clear so there’s no misunderstanding.

  22. Point of interest.

    I had previously been against the idea of NZ becoming a Republic, simply because of the protection against governmental corruption and racist laws offered by the Privy Council.

    Now that NZ has cut ties with the Privy Council we have to think of other ways to prevent further abuses from occurring.

    The Treaty was an agreement between the Crown and the Maori aborigines: the Crown at that time being the Queen, represented by Hobson.

    Consider now what the situation would be if NZ did become a Republic and severed completely all ties with the Crown (the Queen).

    One of the signatory parties to the treaty would then no longer exist in this country, the Treaty would no longer apply to non-Maori NZ’ers, and the part-Maoris would have to make any claims directly to the Crown in England.

    Any comments?

    1. I think this is one of the key (excuse pun) reasons why the current ‘constitutional advisers’ are at work.

      There has been a push towards a republic for many decades and logically one day it will probably happen.

      Treatyists know that if and when that occurs it will create issues regarding the future of ‘The Treaty’.

      To enable ‘The Treaty’ to continue to ‘develop, evolve and remain relevant’ as the Treatyists say, it would be necessary to have legal and secure recognition of it in a manner that would survive and even thrive should NZ become a republic.

      That mechanism is to have it enshrined in a constitution. Hence their ‘work’.

  23. Mike,
    And the procedure will work, trying to get the average N Zers interested in anything but rugby racing and beer is well nigh impossible. Obviously the generation under fifty or thereabouts have had things so good in this country they have no idea what any sort of adversity could mean to the way of life of so many of them. It is said that a people get the government they deserve, and that would certainly appear to be true with our current lot.
    Will it be capable of change? Myself I would think a lot of new New Zealanders will have to be attracted to this new party. There was a post a few weeks back from a George Romero in answer to N Ngamoko that spells it out for me, they are the people who will have to be catered for in any new party if it is to have any chance of success.

    1. I should have added to my previous post, many of these people are far more politically motivated than the average kiwi. Must be something to do with their life experience with politicians?

  24. The Constitutional review is already stacked to protect the “principles of the Treaty” and the highly inventive “partnership model.”
    See the extract below:

    We seek Cabinet agreement that the purpose of the Consideration of
    Constitutional Issues is to:

    stimulate public debate and awareness of New Zealand’s constitutional
    arrangements and issues arising;

    seek the views of all New Zealanders (individuals, groups and organisations),
    including those of Maori (iwi, hapu, whanau) in ways that reflect the
    partnership model and are responsive to Maori consultation preferences;

    understand New Zealanders’ perspectives on our constitutional
    arrangements, including the range of topical issues requiring further
    discussion, debate and policy consideration; and then

    identify whether any further consideration of the issues is desirable, and if so,
    which issues.
    Ministerial responsibility for the Consideration of Constitutional Issues

  25. Somehow we have to give this myth with all its attached lies a strong body blow so that it disintegrates forever.

    They are fiendishly clever and know if they talk of something as fact, it will eventually be taken so.

    They have to be exposed to everyone for the duplicitous weasels they all are. It is all a bit fat unadulterated lie. They know it too and must be laughing behind their hands at how weak our politicians and their fawning supporters are.

    However, we can’t really blame them when all is said and done. If there is something out there for nothing and the powers that be are stupid enough to give it to them, then many would go for it. It’s human nature.

    What a disgraceful bunch we have running our country.

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