John Tamihere, Radio Live, Willie Jackson

Maybe Willie and JT aren’t so chicken after all: Hear us on Radio Live, Wednesday 20 February, 1.00 – 2.00pm

Once on Close Up in 2011 — after calling me a racist who told lies — Willie Jackson told me I was the kind of straight-shooter he’d like to have on his and John Tamihere’s radio show.

I didn’t hear any more about it.

Then last Tuesday, I introduced myself to Willie at Waitangi. He was surprisingly friendly.

I teased him with, “How can you call me a mongrel (another of his and JT’s pet on-air names for me) when you’re a Maori called Jackson?”

We had a good-natured chat where we both agreed with each other 100%… that each other was a racist.

Waitangi 2013 - JA & Willie Jackson

At Waitangi with my new mate Willie Jackson.
We agreed with each other 100% that each other was a racist.

He again said he’d invite me on his show.

Then the next day, Waitangi Day, I rang the show to correct a flagrantly one-sided account by Tamihere of the execution of captured Maori fighters after the Siege of Ngatapa.

(JT had somehow forgotten to mention that the executioner was a loyalist Maori soldier exacting personal utu — in defiance of British policy. He went unpunished, but so did Te Rauparaha and Te Rangihaeata after the execution of captured settlers in the  Wairau Massacre of 1843.)

Somewhere in the middle of our shouting match, Willie again said they’d invite me to be a guest on the show.

So I was a bit disappointed to be told on Wednesday that Willie had said on air that JT and their producer had vetoed the idea.

That’s when I started preparing a post with the above pair of timorous yellow tap-dancing chickens, which I was going to label Tamihere and Jackson.

That’s also when (unbeknown t0 me) Treatygate supporter Kevin Campbell decided to tackle Willie via the Radio Live website…

__________________________

CAMPBELL TO JACKSON 1

From: Kevin Campbell
To: Willie Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2013, 2:42 p.m.

Willie/JT

You won’t have John Ansell on because he will tell the truth, and we can’t have that.

You say he has a distorted or one-sided view of history? Compared to whose? Yours?

Get real, there is only one history and it doesn’t line up with the Waitangi Tribunal version that pays out on treaty claims.

Soon there will be nowhere to hide because the truth will always out.

Kevin

__________________________

JACKSON TO CAMPBELL 1

From: Willie Jackson
To: Kevin Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2013, 2:43 p.m.

YES AND YOU WILL BE FOUND OUT ALONG WITH YOUR MATE ANSELL.

__________________________

CAMPBELL TO JACKSON 2

From: Kevin Campbell
To: Willie Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2013, 2:45 p.m.

He is happy to line up and challenge you. What are you or your management scared of?

IT’S CALLED THE TRUTH.

The Maoris I know would man up.

__________________________

JACKSON TO CAMPBELL 2

From: Willie Jackson
To: Kevin Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2013, 2:54 p.m.

He hid behind his racist Bill Boards and his National Funders and the ACT Party rats … Think about it

__________________________

CAMPBELL TO JACKSON 3

From: Kevin Campbell
To: Willie Jackson
Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2013, 9:55 a.m.

Willie

John Ansell is simply a proponent of one law for all in NZ, as I am.

Anything else is separatism.

Ansell is simply pointing out that Te Tiriti O Waitangi was created to deliver equality.

And no, not everything went smooth for some tribes.

But in 99% of cases they certainly asked for land confiscation and consequences.

The treaty was to protect the rights of Maori as well as non-Maori, remember?

Based on previous polls taken since 1995, I think you are in the 20% (a very generous estimation) of Kiwis who support Maori sovereignty and a continuation of the Waitangi Tribunal scam.

Any dream of sovereignty or a separate set of rights for Maori was ceded forever on 6 February 1840.

There were 200 chiefs who also ratified that position again at Kohimarama twenty years later.

It is only because of gutless politicians, noisy activists and lack of investigative journalism that the ugly creep of separatism has got to where it is in NZ today.

All people such as John Ansell ask is that you, JT and Radio Live management play with a straight bat on behalf of the 80% plus Kiwis who want a united NZ.

Kevin

__________________________

If Kevin’s efforts hadn’t been successful, my next move would have been to rally the troops for an all-out assault on the phone lines to protest the about-face.

But this proved unnecessary.

At 2.00pm yesterday, Radio Live producer Mary Putnam rang me with the news that Willie and JT now wanted me on their show next Wednesday from 1.00 – 2.00pm.

A friend heard Willie say on air that he’d met me at Waitangi and “he seemed like a reasonable sort of a bloke — why shouldn’t we have him on and listen to what he has to say?”

I don’t know if that was the whole story. Tamihere wasn’t on the programme yesterday, so maybe the decision was taken without him.

But I was happy to accept, and I’m looking forward to it.

(Of course, two on to one is hardly fair. They may need to bring in reinforcements.)

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205 thoughts on “Maybe Willie and JT aren’t so chicken after all: Hear us on Radio Live, Wednesday 20 February, 1.00 – 2.00pm

  1. Ngamoko Nikora has said he will not apologise and will not come back, and I will not have him back.

    It’s sad really that, like Anakereiti and others, he saw fit to turn on me when I had given him a pretty fair run.

    Again to be fair to him, this is what a reader has told me about him:

    “He is definitely in Brunei. My sister-in-law is also in the teaching profession in Brunei, and I asked her if she knew him. She said she doesn’t know him personally but knows of him. She said he has a reputation, over there, of being a wonderful man who would do anything for anyone.”

  2. I’m individually concerned at comments here which are condemnatory of John Key and National. Keep it up and you will drive away half of the potential members of a Treatygate Club/Party/Lobby/whatever.

    Same if people use this site to bag Shearer. That will drive away a third more. And if you bag the Greens here, you will drive away a quarter more. So in the end, you will have driven away more than those who ever arrived in the first place.

    The problems being addressed by any John Ansell group are not targeting specifically any other political party. The problem has been in place for 40 years, no matter which party has been at the helm.

    Till you get this, you don’t understand the concept of a single-issue party. If you are a single issue party, you have to forfeit the right to bag other parties, because National supporters will be driven away by the anti-National element, while Labour supporters will be driven away by the anti-Labour element. And so on.

    I happen to be one of the majority of people in New Zealand (remember we are still a majority, folks?) who happen to be able to say with pride that on most issues I support Key and National. I don’t want to have to be coming to this site, to be insulted by my having this preference.

    If it comes to a choice between the two, I will support National and Key long before I will support John Ansell. My wish is to be able to marry my support for both. Don’t push me and 48 percent of New Zealand away without even trying.

    1. Agree with what you say Tropicana (even if I have done my fair share of bagging too).

      Still it’s a fine line when politicians of all types bag our intentions.

      As something of a selective voter myself – didn’t use to be but changed about 20 years ago – I have voted for 3 or 4 different parties but would not vote for any currently in parliament and didn’t last time either.

      I acknowledge at least some truth in most of the comments bagging the current crop of all persuasions in parliament. But I do think we need to tie our criticism to their bagging of our ideals.

  3. Tropicana, while your points are taken, we must remember that if any of those parties were addressing the issues this site would not be needed in the first place. I for example have always voted for policies rather than parties. Most recently, that has led me to support National. But there is no use pretending that I like many others feel very let down by their performance on these Maori trougher and separatist trends. What you say has vailidity and is one reason why I support intense and focussed lobbying rather than starting a new party – to the point that at least some of them will recognise that there is political capital to be had by incorporating our aims into their manifestos and then acting on them. A tall order I know, because that describes National in theory, but sadly currently not in practice. I don’t know where the balance lies, but I think we must accept the reality that almost all current parties are a long way away from satisfactory performance on these issues, and there is no firm sign that is about to change.

  4. I too can see where Tropicana is coming from but it is hard not to bag a Party who is contributing increasingly to what we are opposing and not listening to the people.

    We thought Helen Clarke was bad enough but she at least put the Foreshore and Seabed into public ownership. John Key discarded that and so it is now open slather for ‘Maori’ claims. He and his Party are doing enormous damage to this country but it is Labour who started it by inventing the Principles and putting them into legislation. So it is not any one Party at fault. They are both bad for the country.

    I vote for policies and so didn’t vote for any of the major Parties at the last election because for me racial equality and dispensing with all racist legislation is absolutely uppermost in determining where I will place my vote. I have always been a National Party supporter until 2008 when they went into coalition with the Maori Party when they didn’t need to and have done a lot of foot work pre-election for them in the past. I predicted coalition with the Maori Party would be a disaster for our country and it has definitely proven to be so.

    I will try not to bag any Parties from now on but feel it will crop up now and again if any continue with racist divisions. Getting rid of this and achieving racial equality is what we are all about after all.

  5. I will not be pegging back my deserved criticism of Key in order to grovel to people who are going to vote National anyway.

    People who would vote National despite what their leader has done on this issue are certainly not worth grovelling to.

    I would be asking all National and Labour voters to whom truth matters to vote for it.

    Some might. Tropicana obviously won’t. I can live with that.

    A single-issue party should fight on that issue against all those who would surrender their country by stealth.

    And right now, that most certainly includes John Key.

    1. I agree John, i have historically foolishly voted National but have since e mailed my MP and JK and told them there racist policy is sickening and they have lost my vote, ( no response though what a surprise) this for me also is the single biggest issue which will draw my vote come 2014.

  6. Hear, hear, John. The more I think about Tropicana’s remarks, the more I can’t see how we can avoid bagging those Parties that are destroying our country as we once knew it. They are the problem and deserve to be exposed for what they are.

    All too many of the public should be able to see it for themselves but they are not using their heads and need to have it spelled out for them bit by bit. They don’t like what’s going on but don’t seem to connect it with the Government and John Key as well as previous Governments. It’s quite beyond belief really.

  7. I have lost more by walking away from the Scaredy Nats than anyone I know.

    I was their golden-haired boy and was accorded the rare honour of being clapped into the caucus room.

    I was being paid what for me was a fortune when I walked away.

    So if it’s good enough for me to leave them because they were disgracing their founding principles, it’s good enough for other National voters to do the same.

    After all, what is a party that can accommodate both Rob Muldoon and Don Brash as leaders – polar opposites?

    It’s not a party of principle – it’s a social club.

    And don’t get me started about Labour and the Greens.

    No, if I start a party, it will not be to cuddle up to those who’ve been letting New Zealand down.

    It will be to replace them.

    1. So you would start a party with what are essentially the same principles/policies as National with the exception of re-enforcing the national that Brash envisioned. I.e. get rid of every policy that is race specific, proclaim that there are no longer any true maori people (50% by quanta) and thus move on to a NZ based on equality for all new comers, no longer based on whose ancestors got here first!!!!

      1. Wazzup Jonathan … don’t you like the idea of a “NZ based on equality” for all citizens? Are you too fond of “equality” based on who “got here first” ?

    2. Why did you say “Don’t get me started about Labour and the Greens”?

      John Ansell, you are not going to be the Prime Minister of New Zealand. That’s a fact.

      You are not going to hold a majority of seats in our Parliament. That’s a fact.

      The best you can hope for it to attract a few voters to scrape over the 5 percent barrier. That would be about 115,000 votes.

      The new party has to decide where these votes are going to come from.

      Please don’t count these votes before you have them. And until you have them, you need to be avoiding offending EVERYONE.

      At present you have maybe 115 votes out of the necessary 115,000 votes. Don’t offend people whom you want to attract. It is not a good idea.

      And by not offending the 114,885 voters you still need, this might include not offending them for where they have placed their votes in the past. If you do offend them for past behaviour, they will click off this site quicker than you can post comments here.

      This applies equally to Greens, NZ First, Labour and National prior voters.

      There is an alternative. You can use wedge politics. Every time you speak, you can say the entire phrase, EVERY TIME (forget the minions).

      “Greens, NZ First, Labour and National have all been as bad as one another throughout the last 40 years”. We despise every one of them in their race policies. Vote Treatygate NZ and begin reversing these disastrous policies.

      But when people write such as this on these pages, you can kiss certain people goodbye, from the day they put their noses in the door.

      “John Key is a spineless liar and I think he’s kowtowing to radical Maori and in some way or another making a personal fortune from it. Can’t you see what he’s doing? You know what he’s doing but you don’t want us to insult him for it.”

      And John Ansell, while I am clearly showing an interest in what you are doing and clearly interested in being drawn towards your creating a club/lobby/party/fellowship, you have to be a retard, to be intentionally insulting me, by commenting that clearly I will be opposing you in vote 2014.

      John Ansell. Are you actually all there? Insulting me, when I am clearly trying to urge you on to higher things?

      JA, get a grip, man. You must be tired.

      1. Tropicana,

        Chill.

        We are all singing from the same song sheet here. We all agree that ALL the current parties in parliament are part of the problem and have all been either the architect of or the willing supporters of the current scam. I have not seen any poster on here claiming any of them have clean hands.

        I don’t think anyone on here has any confidence in any of the political parties currently in parliament being part of the solution. Rather they are all part of the problem. I imagine you feel the same from your past posts.

        Assuming this is so, it is natural for posters to be critical of all the current parties, most especially at the moment the one or ones doing the current damage. If we don’t feel this way we might as well all go our separate ways and lobby whatever party we feel closest to, to stop the gravy train.

        The very reason this movement exists is because this has not worked for 30 years and no one has any confidence that this will change.

      2. You are so right, Mike. I totally agree with everything you have said. The politicians ARE the problem, and have been for a long time, otherwise they would have stopped all the racial divisions and handouts and treated us all equally long ago. The fact that they haven’t speaks volumes.

      3. No, Mkvl, I will not chill. However, I will note this.

        The mere fact that I have raised the problem of commenters on this site up till now lambasting a particular party more than others, has immediately caused an awareness of the problem. An immediate result is already apparent.

        My comments seem to have had an immediate desired effect. It will not cause me to chill on this point, not any other. So don’t tell me to. You can bank on a promise from me, that I will not be demanding you to “chill”.

        I am hoping the instant change is one that lasts.

    3. What Jonathan says here, in assuming that we are a Don Brash party, is exactly why I have been saying that we must not criticise other parties without criticising them all, and why we must not comment on views that are not race relations oriented.

      No Jonathan, (I hope) we are not going to be a National Party minus the racism. But nor will we be a Labour Party without the racism.

      As I understand it we will only vote in Parliament on issues relating to equality between Maori and non-Maori. I’m hoping that the leader will confirm that on things like asset sales, we will abstain from voting in Parliament.

      On things like defence, we will abstain. On things like education, we will abstain. If you want equality between the races in New Zealand, you need to place your vote with Together NZ. The other parties can sort the other stuff out between them as they do now.

      1. I think the proposal is that on all other matters TNZ Mp’s will vote on their individual preferences.3

        Therefore if out of 20 MP’s 10 were rabid capitalists and 10 rabid socialists, on asset sales there would probably be 10 in favour and 10 against.

        However on all matters to do with legislation on race, all would be unanimous on voting for legislation enhancing equality and all against legislation enhancing racist identity & separatism.

        I think if you have a party that only votes on one issue and abstains on everything else they might as well not bother to turn up for parliament at all unless specific relevant legislation was being debated.

        I don’t know if the public would be happy with this.

  8. National and John Key especially deserve the approbrium they get.
    I can’t see where you are coming from Tropicana. It’s debate and people get slagged for what they’re doing or not doing. John Key is a spineless liar and I think he’s kowtowing to radical maori and in some way or another making a personal fortune from it. Can’t you see what he’s doing? You know what he’s doing but you don’t want us to insult him for it.
    This country is being given away, along with hundreds and hundreds of millions of tax payers money via stealth to a little crowd of radical part maori who make alot of noise. He will no doubt give them the water, air, and a percentage of yours and our home in the very near future to make them billionairs beyond our wildest dreams. And he will do this via the tribe bribes (Quid pro quo) that he’s been doing since he’s been in power.
    And you feel a little like we’re picking on them filthy politicians who’d sell their own mothers to placate these disgusting, parasitic and cancerous part maori radicals.
    My God man what’s wrong with you? Get a grip and see what’s more important to this country and its people rather than your own sensitivities and snap out of your poncey PC bullshit that you so embrace.
    God forbid you never become a leader of a political party; you’d be eaten for breakfast by even the Greens, as they’d see you as a big lilly.
    Harden up man (as they say in my adopted country).

    1. And what the f..k did Clark do? And Shipley before her? And Jim Bolger before her? And three Labour PMs before him?

      And surely you don’t think that Shearer is suddenly going to change things in favour of us Europeans.

      For God’s sake, every time you bag a right winger, you drive away from here a right winger who might want to vote for Together NZ, when you haven’t even got voters to start with. And every time you bag a left wing politician you drive away from here, a potential left-leaning voter who might want to vote for Together NZ.

      Stop driving people away before they even get here. This is not a left wing cause. And it isn’t a right wing cause. Stop driving away right wing Together NZ votes. And stop driving away left wing Together NZ votes. Or we are doomed from day one.

      Pull your heads in with your John Key hatred. Remember you are still a minority. Just to balance things, I hate David Shearer, I hate Robinson, I hate Mallard, I hate Parker, I hate Goff, I hate Labour, but this it isn’t my place to drive away any potential left-wing Together NZ votes, who read this and say, they hate Labour on this site. This site is not for me.

      Pull you heads in, and get listen and learn what a single-issue party means. Or drop it immedately because you are doomed with outspoken anti Key or anti Shearer or Anti Greens or anti-Winston comments.

      You are going to kill Together NZ before you even start, if you don’t get this right from the outset. I am rarely wrong. I am not wrong on this.

  9. Latest story from the local media on the Rena wreck:

    Most of the visible front part of the wreck is now gone. The main part of the hull is lying off the back of the reef in 20 – over 50 metres of water. To remove this from the reef would be incredibly expensive and dangerous.

    The insurance company want to leave it there. Most of the cargo is gone.
    They will need to apply for a resource consent to do this. The RC process of course will be overseen by the ‘local iwi’.

    The local ‘Iwi’ state they will not accept the granting of a RC and are going to take legal action to get the whole wreck removed.
    The company has countered by offering to set up ‘scholarships’ and ‘grants’ for ‘local iwi.’.

    What is incredible is that no one else is mentioned in this story at all. It is as if the entire non-iwi population of the BOP doesn’t exist. Despite non iwi businesses and people bearing the brunt of the effects of the wreck and providing most of the effort given in cleaning it up, we are invisible and utterly ignored.

    It is quite clear what will happen. The company will make ‘iwi’ an offer (disguised as scholarships and grants) and will keep upping the offer until ‘iwi’ decide that the money is enough. Suddenly there will be a RC issued, the wreck will remain along with a press release that ‘local iwi’ are disappointed by the decision but have decided that there is merit in leaving the wreck as a dive attraction for the wider community and so will kindly withdraw their action in the interests of the community. The whole issue will disappear, except of course if ‘iwi’ decide they really would like some more scholarships and grants in which case there will be periodic tales of additional and unforeseen pollution that will require some extra koha from the insurers.

    Meanwhile…..HELLO…… HELLO……HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO

  10. This is all beyond the pale, Mike. Where is everyone? I just can’t believe New Zealanders are so stupid. What is wrong with them? They say every ….. has its day but this is a very long long day. What goes round, comes round – but when will it? It’s taking a very long time.

    Sorry if I sound incoherent!! I’m just in total despair with the people of this country.

  11. And John Key, the maori radicals and their mendacious mates keep it going.
    When anyone objects they are shouted down as racists. John Key and his cohorts are doing this. We are led by donkeys and spineless ones at that.
    I can’t work it out what NZers are fearful of? Do they think it’ll all put itself right and maori will run out of things to claim for soon enough, they’ll get bored ripping off this country of all its wealth?
    My God if the general population of NZ were a man I’d grab him by the scruff and shake him out his stuper until he stands up and fights for what he’s lost and going to loose.

    1. And so will Labour and Shearer and all, as soon as the reins are passed to them. National is no-where near on race relations than Labour have ever been over the last 40 years.

      Labour started the racist shit.

      And everything suggests that the next Labour government will be the worst ever government in handouts to Maori. Shearer/Robinson will be the worst ever.

      Next Labour government will be the worst ever racists, by a long, long way. They want the Maori seats, and are prepared to bribe Maori as much as it takes to get the Maori seats next year.

      Watch Labour offer to Maori billions in bribes to buy the Maori seats with our money, in the lead-up to next-year’s election.

  12. The thing Marvin is that this has snowballed for over 30 years and no one has had the balls to say enough and do something about it (until JA now).

    Now I understand that some, maybe even many in Parliament are either part of the gravy train like the Maori Party or philosophically aligned to it like the Greens (poor, mistreated indigenous natives, need compensation etc).

    However the oddest part of it I find is that whenever people with a history of being critical of separatism and the gravy train, like Bolger, Shipley, Key etc actually get into power its like they suffer a lobotomy or a principle transplant and abruptly do a 180 on their previous position.

    I can believe perhaps some of these being weak or easily swayed, but it has happened to every single one of them for the last 30 years. And not just the leaders. The entire list of MP’s with them swings in behind and also goes along for the ride, even if their previous statements have been opposed.

    What has gone on? Possibilities:

    1) They are ALL weak and easily swayed

    2) They have ALL genuinely believed that their previous position was incorrect and had a genuine change of heart

    3) They are ALL corrupt and have been bought off

    4) Upon taking office they have been briefed that should they not continue the train there will be massive unrest and bloodshed. Faced with no apparent alternative they have continued the train in the hope they can bail out before it reaches the end of the track and therefore leave the mess to someone else. Perhaps they drink heavily and hallucinate that the ride will never end.

    Can anyone think of other scenarios?

    1. All credit to JA for his stance Mike, for which he has my complete support. But don’t forget that Don Brash made a strong stand on these issues a few years back, and very nearly took National nowhere to power in 2005 on the strength of it. Had that happened instead of being sabotaged by Clark & Cullen appealing to the rank stupidity and self interest of many NZ voters, I doubt that this movement would have been necessary. But it didn’t, so here we are …

      1. And Exclusive Brethren would again be right behind Treatygate, and would readily put a million dollars into it, if their donation could only be kept off the front pages of certain newspapers.

        Get the Exclusives to pay for the 80 percent public opinion poll, John Ansell. They’ve got the money, even if they don’t vote.

    2. What utter bull…t. What do you mean, Bolger, Shipley, Key? Who started the crap of buying the Maori seats. Labour did. And that is when there were only 4 Maori seats.

      Labour next year have already sown the seeds. They will be pulling out billions to buy the Maori seats using our taxpayers dollars to buy these seats. Just like Clark did. Just like three Labour PMs did in succession before that.

      Labour are the teachers – the professors – at spending taxpayer dollars to buy Maori votes. Bolger, Shipley, Key, my foot. They were the students in Maori vote buying. They know they will never buy Maori votes, so they don’t bother trying.

      Prepare for the real NZ Holocaust in 2014, when Labour will eclipse them all in buying what they see as the buyable Maori seats that they see as being vulnerable from the virtually defunct Maori Party.

      Don’t go near a Labour vote next year, if you put any value on equality between the races.

  13. (5)They use the promise or suggestion of ridding the Gravey Train as a way of getting themselves elected, then once in Office they give the middle finger to NZers and focus on policies that they want.

    (6) Once in office they quickly realise how many people have links to the Treaty in one way or another and decide to leave the issue well alone to save their own backsides.

    1. Regarding number ‘6’ – I was wondering of how many Treatyists/Tribalists are involved in Media e.g. Miri Kamo – and how much damage they could do to an MP’s position should they upset the Maori Council etc.

      1. There is no doubt in my mind that the mainstream media have been well and truly infiltrated by pro-Treatyists and that they will fight back viciously when threatened. They managed to diminish Don Brash’s reputation with innuendo, “racist” labels and smirking delivery of misinformation. They will definitely do the same again.

      2. Not quite. The message survived and nearly got Don Brash elected: up from languishing at 20 percent in the polls.

        The Exclusive Brethren issue undid him, remember.

  14. I’ve been reflecting on what you have said above, Tropicana. Can you tell me please exactly what good things John Key and National have done for this country? You seem to think highly of them so they must have done something right. They are riding high in the polls so many others must also have good reason to think well of them.

    1. No, this is not the place to be debating other parties, on any topic other than race relations. You can go on with it if you like but if you do, you can kiss Together NZ goodbye as a political force.

      There are hundred other blogs where you can debate John Key and National, or I can debate Russel Norman or David Shearer. If you want to bag National here, then you can kiss goodbye to 50,000 of the potential voters of the 115,000 votes needed for Together NZ to get into Parliament.

      I have explained the strategy behind this, elsewhere, and will not repeat my comments here, because they are not in best interests of Together NZ.

      Please remember that of the 115,000 votes that Together NZ will be looking for, so far we have a total of about 115. The other 114,885 will have to come from somewhere else, including National Party voters, so if you want to insult previously National supporters, then be it on your head, it they leave this website faster than they arrive.

      As far as race relations are concerned there is no party who is any better than any other. On race relations, Greens are as bad as NZ First are as bad as Labour are as bad as National.

      1. Tropicana, I struggle to see where you are coming from. It seems that you at least broadly agree with the aims and views shared by most on this blog, but on the other hand you object to any criticism of the job National have done on this issue. In the context of this blog, they have done a breathtakingly poor job, and are continuing to do so at an alarming rate. If that were not so, none of us would need to be here. That is the simple truth, and I am not sure why you describe saying so as “bagging”. I agree with giving credit where it is due, but on this issue – and a few others, actually – National deserve very little credit. Which is a real shame, because I voted for them – and won’t do so again until they get their act together and properly represent the clear wishes of the majority of NZers. I think that properly handled any anti-Treatygate campaign will attract others who are disappointed by National rather than repel them as you assert. If you want to see real and robust criticism of National’s performance on Maori /Treaty issues, try reading the well established NZCPR web site, among others.

      2. Thank you for the comment, John Phillips.

        Labour have already made it clear, that in 2014, they intend to win all of the Maori seats. They will spare no expense – that is to say – no taxpayer expense, to buy these votes.

        They have the policies in draft form now, to eclipse all that has ever gone before. Labour will be promising the spending of taxpayers’ money on Maori causes next year, to extremes that today we only have in our worst nightmares.

        You think that National is bad, wait till you see what Labour are working on. You will shit yourselves. And it will all be too late. You think interest-free student loans was an election bribe? You think working for families was an election bribe? Wait till you see the promises Labour have in mind for buying the Maori seats next year.

        Labour have made it their number one priority for next year’s election. Promising to Maori whatever it takes to buy the votes from Maori on the Maori roles. And that means Maori on the general roll as well all voting for Labour’s planned Maori election bribes. They will eclipse all Labour bribes from the past

        Labour want the Maori seats at all costs. And that means at the expense of European New Zealanders.

        Prepare to be shocked beyond your worst nightmares.

  15. I was asking the question, Tropicana, in the context that you complain that we bag National and John Key on this Forum. At the moment he is a big obstacle to us achieving equality for everyone so of course we have to say what he is or isn’t doing in race relations. It is very relevant.

    On reflection perhaps my question wasn’t very appropriate though and I can see what you mean. I was just wondering what good he had actually done seeing he is doing an enormous amount of harm to the welfare and prosperity of this country in racial matters and the cost to us all is astronomical.

    1. My comments are straightforward if you take the time to read them.

      On matters of race relations, one party has been as bad as the other. Indeed every party has been as bad as the other. So it is wrong to be singling out any politicial here for the sake of points scoring without equally mentioning others as being just as bad. Otherwise you will frighten newcomers away because you are insulting their preference for PM, or past voting. Insult voters that you don’t yet have, and you will instantly lose them, never to return. And remember, right now Together NZ has a total of 115 -potential voters of the 115,000 we will need.

      On every other issue aside from race relations, there is no place here whatsoever for people to be bagging any party. Let’s take asset sales as an example.

      [Note that I have said the words “as an example”. Don’t come back and say, “who said anything about asset sales”. Once again as a hypothetical example.]

      I don’t care what your position is on asset sales, but what people tend to forget is that New Zealand are nearly evenly divided on the question. If you give an opinion here, which is one side of the issue or not, then even if people are supportive of the race relations position, they will go away never to return. Note that they will be going away in spite of the fact that the official view of Together NZ is that we don’t have a view on asset sales. So we will be driving people away for something the party didn’t even have a view on.

      So to summarise. On race relations, every party is shit, not just the party you despise. So bag every party on race relations or don’t bag any of them.

      On every other issue, we shouldn’t express a view here, because Together NZ doesn’t have a view and you might be frightening people away for reasons that Together NZ doesn’t even have a view on.

      These are the disciplines that a single-issue party must be consistent with. Or you are doomed. Utterly doomed.

      1. I am wrong on the above. I concede that I am not going to persuade anyone away from bagging National and John Key here on this website.

        I will be matching every one of your criticisms of Key/National with much more damning criticisms of left-leaning voters, of Labour and of Shearer/Robinson/Goff/Ardern/Tipkins/Mallard/etc (puke) seeing as the bribery of all Maori using taxpayer money, is the speciality of Labour governments.

        Recognise though, that in this Together NZ website battle between the left and the right, the loser will be Together New Zealanders, as you drive away right leaning voters, while my responses will make people believe that this is a right wing party, so the lefties will be gone too.

        With the Treatygaters squeezed out by the cumulative effect of you battling the right wingers. Not a good strategy.

  16. I listened to most of the interview today with Willie & JT. One caller who Wiilie leaped onto as a supporter was Peter who was critical of John’s use of the writings of Sir Apirana Ngata. He stated that he had read the letters between Sir Apirana and Sir Peter Buck and amongst other things implied that Sir Apirana would have out Honed Hone if he were alive today.
    There are 3 published volumes of these letters in the Library at the Auckland Museum. As we were in Auckland city we called in and had look at a few letters. What was obvious from the ones I read which were circa 1930 was that Sir Apirana was trying very hard to help the Maori people establish farming enterprises and was well funded in this enterprise by the Government of the day. Below is an article by Dr Michael Bassett written in 2005 about Sir Apirana and these letters to Peter Buck. Doesn’t seem to back up Willies caller. Note the references to JT at the end.
    There is no comparison between Sir Apirana and Hone!

    Sir Apirana Ngata 04/01/2005
    It’s just gone 70 years ago since the greatest Maori leader of the twentieth century, Sir Apirana Ngata, resigned from ministerial office. I recently discovered the missing second volume in my collection of his letters to Sir Peter Buck, one of his small group of peers. The two set high standards for Maori. In one vigorous exchange Ngata noted that “Whilst the Pakeha regards us from the higher altitude of his culture and stresses how far we are behind, we on our side must scan the heights to realise how far we have to struggle upwards”. Their letters talk of the “prosaic” standards settled for by too many Maori. It was partly Ngata’s unwillingness to accept anything but the highest standards that led him to resign as Native Minister on 1 November 1934. In a country where ministers are notoriously reluctant to accept responsibility, his action brought him great credit. A Royal Commission inquiring into his land settlement schemes had found him un-businesslike with state resources. In fact, he’d been let down by family and supporters who couldn’t be bothered with his message about high standards.

    Ngata spent another nine years in Parliament. But his was increasingly a voice in the wilderness. One writer called him “the Moses of his people”, but Ngata watched too many Maori preferring the bulrushes of welfare and state paternalism to his challenge to cross to the promised land. Both leaders kept mourning that Maori themselves were reluctant to exercise the necessary discipline to achieve equality. From afar in Hawaii, Buck hoped (forlornly) that tribal structures might act as a buffer against the debilitating aspects of the Labour Government’s socialism. Ngata became pessimistic, even despondent, as he saw Maori settle for the glamour of higher wages and “easily got pensions” instead of working hard for the best jobs that Pakeha still monopolised. This way, he said, Maori would only achieve a form of racial equality that was “spasmodic and casual”.

    What gives special edge to the correspondence between these Maori giants is that both had been ministers (briefly in Buck’s case) who tracked where state expenditure produced the best results for Maori. Education, education and more education they had concluded were the secrets to Maori making best use of their resources. Choosing unemployment benefits and preferential assistance based on race was a double-edged weapon. They helped right now, but ensured a second-class life longer term. As he neared death, Ngata kept encouraging young Maori into the professions – his own son into accounting, Maharaia Winiata into Maori Adult Education, Peter Tapsell into medicine. Buck and Ngata encountered each other for the last time when Buck, his health also failing, was home in 1949. The two frail rangatira toured the country preaching the need for hard work and its rewards.

    But the future was bleak. The next fifty years produced no politicians of the stature of Ngata, Buck or their famous political contemporaries, Sir James Carroll and Sir Maui Pomare. A handful of Maori got to university. One of Pomare’s grandsons, Eru, became a distinguished gastro-enterologist; there were quality lawyers, bishops and businessmen. Maori have shone in the arts and sport, and have accepted the discipline required to do so. But political leadership they have not had. The mountains that Ngata wanted them to climb await their Hillary. At base camp second-raters farm Maori grievances. Some even seek to make a virtue out of the corruption and sloppy thinking that pervades so many state-funded Maori schemes. They debase their ancestors by talking of “the Maori way”. There are even some with their noses in today’s trough who would label Ngata a “Maori basher” or an “Uncle Tom”. As I read the correspondence, I can hear Ngata’s voice, excoriating them. There is a timeless quality to the Buck-Ngata message. Today’s Maori ignore it at their peril.

    This is why I keep watching John Tamihere and Shane Jones, and hoping. Educated Maori, who have struggled and succeeded in a Pakeha world. In Tamihere’s case, he, and particularly his supporters, have cut corners. But Tamihere and Jones understand that Tariana Turia, Ken Mair, Annete Sykes, Margaret Mutu and Titewhai Harawira are false prophets. Welfare minister Steve Maharey, too. Maori will triumph when they take on Pakeha at their own game. Ngata did. So did Buck. Both cut the mustard internationally. Can Tamihere and Jones? Let’s hope so. Never has the need for quality Maori leadership been greater.

    1. You can forget Tamihere & Jones – they are pygmies compared to Ngata & Buck. There are NO recognisable Maori statesmen on the scene, unfortunately – and it is unwise to try to make do with second & third raters.

  17. There is a person whom I believe is commenting here who was in the habit of making damaging comments on my other blog.

    He went as far as to threaten me by email. He sent another warning to me recently.

    I have twice banned him from the other site, and will have no hesitation in banning him from this one.

    That person is a former Australian diplomat, of all things.

    I will refrain from naming him for now.

    Judging by his most undiplomatic, indeed abusive, behaviour on my blog, I can only assume that he was ejected from the service of his country.

    He washed up in Whangarei, where he became known to the Police.

    If I find that he is back under another assumed name, and if he threatens me again, I will have no hesitation in reacquainting the Whangarei police with him.

    Furthermore, he would be the last person I would accept as a member of any organisation of mine.

    1. Relieved to know that you have noticed John A – I was getting alarmed at how easy it is for certain newcomers to muscle their way in, make antagonistic comments and quite quickly take over the thread. Very off-putting for others, including me – quite inhibiting. There seem to have been a series of them. You get rid of one, and another quite quickly pops up and hijacks the discussion again. In fact I am wondering if a blog structure is serving your purpose all that well, but I can’t think of any suitable alternative – can anyone else ?

    2. Me too. I’m sick of commenters here, commenting about others in remarks that don’t even make one word of mention the actual topic. Gavin is the worst, never actually commenting on topic.

      One wonders how many IDs this Gavin might have, and how close to the establishment, this troll might truthfully be. I doubt that anyone can point to a comment from this commenter which is not 100 percent trolling.

      1. The other problem of course, is that I have suggested to the lefties here, that it is inappropriate for this blog to be a place for singling out National and Key for abuse. They obviously regard the right to use this site to promote leftist views as of paramount importance, and are prepared to rubbish any attempts to stop this leftist campaigning. No holds barred. So when I responded with equal derogation of Labour and Shearer etc, the lefties have declared war. As I predicted might happen.

  18. Hey guys, have just got my census forms, am sure we had more nationalities than 2. Am unsure which side to answer on as can go either way so to speak. sorry just takin da mickey.Going through it i get the feeling we are in big trouble in the future, i am down as Maori since 1989-91 census, am unsure weather i did the right thing answering in that way then. What should i do.

    1. Kia ora Robmo, i let them know that i am Maori, i am proud of being Maori. I am also proud of being Scottish, but there is no “Scottish” on the form. I think there is European, i could be wrong. If there is i tick that too.If you don’t mind me asking, why are you unsure if you have done the right thing?

  19. “Mitch Morgan
    February 19, 2013 at 7:11 pm
    In the 2006 census, under the category of “Ethnic group – Other” you will be no doubt pleased to note that 429,429 Kiwis classed themselves as
    “New Zealander.”

    This seems to be one way of telling the government that most would like to see NZ united as one people.”

    Maybe this is a small thing that we could do now to send the politicians a message. Do we have a tech geek out there who knows how to get a campaign on this to go viral? Not much time as the census date is 7th March. Ideas anyone?

    1. NZCPR are sending out notices to all their supporters to state your ethnic group as New Zealander on the Statistics form.

      Like they say, it is a way to silently protest against identity politics.

  20. Good news. As I have said before we should always do this when a statement on ethnicity is requested. I have done this for some years now.

  21. Robmo, if I was you I would tick the ‘Other’ box and say you are a New Zealander.

    These forms are ridiculous. If you say you are a ‘Maori’ they want to know everything you had for breadfast. Why don’t they want to know the ethnic make-up of everyone else? My Scottish ancestry with a smidgen of Danish, for example. Surely it is just as important.

    I’m going to write something ‘strong’ on my form.

    1. Writing something “strong” on your census form (online?) will be read by a temporary clerk paid the minimum wage for a few weeks to help with the completion of the Census. As much as I sympathise, Helen, not a strong form of protest.

  22. I know Tropicana, but any form of protest, no matter how small, is necessary and worth it. If enough people wrote in, that temporary clerk would surely bring it to the attention of someone more senior. Imagine masses of forms with a strong message written on it. That surely couldn’t be ignored. We must take any means available to bring it to the attention of someone who will sit up and listen and this I will be doing and I hope many others will do the same.

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