NZCPL Constitutional Review Debate Series, Treatygate, Victoria University - NZ Centre for Public Law

Monday 6.30pm: VUW Constitution ‘Debates’ – live on radio

 Treatygater Debaters

Top: Professor Margaret Wilson, Moana Jackson,
Bottom: Sir Geoffrey Palmer, Dame Claudia Orange.

For the next five Monday evenings,  the NZ Centre for Public Law will be hosting a series of Constitutional Review ‘Debates’.

Some of the most notorious Treatygaters will be ‘debating’ (read ‘agreeing’) with each other in the Hunter Council Chamber of the VUW Kelburn campus.

The interesting difference between these and Dame Claudia Orange’s Te Papa Treaty ‘Debates’ is that these ones will be broadcast live on Radio New Zealand National.

Hmmm.

I do hope the debates reflect public opinion. It would certainly be a shame if it was left to frustrated audience members to provide the necessary balance. 🙂

_________________________

NZ CENTRE FOR PUBLIC LAW
CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW DEBATE SERIES

Venue:
Hunter Council Chamber
VUW Kelburn campus, Wellington

Dates:
Every Monday 8 April — 6 May, 2013

Time:
6.30 pm

_________________________

8 April 

“WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?”

Moderator:
Steven Price, barrister

Speakers:
Professor Bruce Harris
Moana Jackson
Dame Claudia Orange
Dr Matthew Palmer

An examination of the origins of the constitutional review, and the process set up to support it.

  • Should we be cynical about its political motives, embrace it as an opportunity for public engagement, neither or both?
  • Do its terms of reference make sense?
  • Is a process like this necessary or desirable?
  • Has the process been set up in a way that could support real change?

_________________________

15 April

“REFORMING OUR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS”

Moderator:
Steven Price, barrister

Speakers:
Dr Maria Bargh
Colin James
Professor Elizabeth McLeay
Sir Geoffrey Palmer QC

The constitutional review’s terms of reference include:

  • the term of Parliament (and whether it should be fixed)
  • the size of Parliament
  • the size and number of electorates
  • issues relating to Māori electoral representation.

The debatees will cover these issues and others that they consider important to the quality and effectiveness of our democratic system.

_________________________

22 April

“MAORI ASPIRATIONS FOR CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE”

Moderator:
Steven Price, barrister

Speakers:
Tai Ahu
Dr Rawinia Higgins
Veronica Tawhai
Valmaine Toki

Four newer voices from the Māori community discuss the nature of Māori aspirations for constitutional change, broadly conceived.

The discussion will move well beyond the status of the Treaty of Waitangi, and include:

  • consideration of alternative models of Māori-Crown relationships
  • the development of a kaupapa Māori or tikanga-based constitution
  • Māori constitutional aspirations in the context of indigenous peoples’ rights at the international level.

_________________________

29 April 

“HUMAN RIGHTS IN THE CONSTITUTION”

Moderator:
Steven Price, barrister

Speakers:
Professor Andrew Geddis
Jack Hodder QC
Stephen Whittington
Professor Margaret Wilson

New Zealand has no formal written constitution, and its bill of rights is an ordinary law that cannot be used to strike down other laws.

  • Should our Bill of Rights be entrenched and supreme law, or not?
  • Should we have one at all?
  • If so, what other rights should it include? Or not include?
  • In broader terms, what steps ought to be taken to protect the human rights of New Zealanders?

_________________________

6 May 

“TIME TO BE A REPUBLIC?”

Moderator:
Steven Price, barrister

Speakers:
Jim Bolger
Professor Janet McLean
Michael Mabbitt

Is it time to replace the Queen as our head of state and become a republic?

  • If not, will it ever be?
  • What would that involve?
  • What will be the major issues confronting us if and when we do so?

_________________________

Wellingtonians: see you Monday at Vic at 6.30 pm.

(Hawkes Bayites: see you Tuesday at the Havelock North Community Centre at 7.oo pm.)

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58 thoughts on “Monday 6.30pm: VUW Constitution ‘Debates’ – live on radio

  1. Hi John (and belated birthday greetings for March)

    Sorry if posted in the wrong spot but Ive been looking into the name changes that are going on and the penny has dropped as to how the Geographic Board has been working.
    Just found the following on the proposal to change the names of the North and South Islands. Geographic Board now have to have two Maori Affairs nominated Board Members. Seems like an agenda to steamroller many name changes through and submissions close 5th July.

    http://www.linz.govt.nz/placenames/current-proposals

    Current Place Name Proposals

    There are currently four place name proposals open for public consultation, beginning 4 April 2013 and concluding the 5 July 2013.

    These proposals were gazetted on 4 April 2013.

    To make a submission, go to the relevant proposal page below and complete the online form. Submissions can also be sent in writing to:

    The Secretary of the New Zealand Geographic Board
    c/o Land Information New Zealand
    PO Box 5501
    Wellington 6145

    Facsmile: (04) 472 2244

    Email: nzgbsubmissions@linz.govt.nz
    Proposed Place Name Geographic
    Feature Type Proposal Type Submission
    Deadline
    North Island Island Proposal to assign alternative official geographic names for the two main islands of New Zealand. 5 July 2013
    Te Ika-a-Māui Island Proposal to assign alternative official geographic names for the two main islands of New Zealand. 5 July 2013
    South Island Island Proposal to assign alternative official geographic names for the two main islands of New Zealand. 5 July 2013
    Te Waipounamu Island Proposal to assign alternative official geographic names for the two main islands of New Zealand. 5 July 2013

    1. Thanks Irene.

      Interesting that we now have compulsory Maori membership on the NZGB. Another disgraceful case of koha-management.

      The Board will already know that the public are opposed to these changes. If they’re the usual gutless bureaucrats, they’ll find it harder to offend their pair of token Maori than to offend the unseen 4 million.

  2. This is what agitates me!

    Without Irene’s research would any of us have known there were submission forms available on this issue?

    How many people knew or know about these submission forms?

    This is how they get away with pushing these agenda’s through.

    Keep the public ignorant of methods to object – push it through – and when the public crack up – they can say that they had submission forms online for the public but hardly anyone responded.

  3. Well, I’ve sent in my submission and given them the message loud and clear!! Also the Maori names proposed would be unpronouncable by visitors and many citizens and they are too long. They need to stop meddling and leave out place names as they are. .

    It’s quite sickening really the speed with which everything ‘Maori’ is being foisted upon us. Every day there is something new for us to grind our teeth over. I’m becoming anti absolutely everything pertaining to ‘Maori’ now. I’m all Maoried out to put it mildly.

    1. I’ve just sent of my submission and got an e-mail back saying that if they did not agree with all the objections, then the decision would be made by the Minister for Land Information……
      I’ve got a strange feeling that I already know how this is going to pan out…..

      1. HW, we know from experience that anything to do with proposals involving ‘Maori’ already have their outcome pre-determined. They just go through the motions of apparent consultation with the rest of us but it’s just a sham. We must not be fooled.

      2. I have put mine in submitting that the Sth Island name change be that of Tevai Pounamu, which was how Captain Cook recorded it on at least two charts in 1770, from the pronounciation of it by its inhabitants, and that like botanical nomenclature based on precedence, that name should stand.
        There is no way that the Maori Language Commission would agree to this spelling and will settle for a revisionist name that would not indicate Maori being settlers who at Cook’s time had still retained some of their Eastern Polynesian language.

    1. Tamati, can I suggest that you read the article again and take in what Tariana Turia is really saying. She actually believes that ‘Maori’ are not being treated the same as other people – but in a negative way when the reality is that Maori are treated in an extremely generous way. They are now and have always been for as long as I remember and it just keeps on escalating.

      Her take on institutional racism is that ‘Maori’ are suffering and the rest are not. What she will be wanting will be even more funding and special treatment than is already being provided.

      Colour blind state won’t even come into it. The poor long suffering taxpayer will be required to cough up ever more. The deluded lady won’t even have the courtesy to acknowledge the billions that are already poured into things ‘Maori’.

      Perhaps it’s time for those of Maori descent who feel they aren’t getting a fair go, to actually start taking responsibility for themselves, looking after their health better and actually working hard does wonders for a person’s self esteem which filters down to their health too.

      Tariana has an agenda – be alert.

      1. Helen, we must presume that Tamati is employing irony for the sake of making a joke. What the dishonest lunatic Tariana Turia wants is the opposite of what we mean by “colourblind”. As always, she wants MORE expenditure and policies that favour Maori and Pacific Islanders, and she is dressing it up as opposition to racism, which in her small mind only works in one direction. Never forget her insane assertion of a “holocaust” suffered by Maoris at the hands of European colonisers – which she has never retracted or apologised for.

  4. Place names!! Don’t know if this ones a biggy for me . I’m 67, don’t like changes , so I personally will call the islands of NZ, North and South till the day I die. On the other hand if the town of Te Awamutu was to be changed to say Rose town It would always remain Te Awamutu to me. I have been to many countries and there is no way I could come close to pronouncing the towns and villages we passed through . Have you ever been to Wales Helen ? If you have I’m sure you came away with, what colorful name places they have, and you not being able to pronounce them I’ll wager. Canada is also full of first nation names, how do you feel about that. The Maori names are not new names they have always been there just mainly ignored and just like Wales I find some of them a challenge but just as colorful .

    1. Well, it is a biggie for me, because it is not only completely unnecessary, but it is another significant move in the wrong direction that we are trying to reverse. I will be opposing any proposal to re-name the NZ islands by whatever means are available, although I fear another corrupt fait accompli is underway.

    2. Hi Bill
      It sounds as though you are used to and comfortable with the main place names in NZ to stay as they are and have been for many years. If so, we are in agreement but it is something that matters to me as yet another example of the railroading that is occurring. People can have a say on this quickly to the Geographic Board, but I do think that in the scheme of things the Constitutional Review is undoubtedly more important. It was not my intention to divert attention from this very important matter, so I do wholeheartedly commend that the Constitutional Review is given priority.

  5. I agree with your comments, Bill. We have plenty of Maori names in our country and also non-Maori names and I will always call the different places by the names I have always known them.

    However, this Maorification of everything in this country is getting up the noses of many. The powers that be should stop meddling and leave things as they are as we have a good mix of names. I still say the names they are proposing for the North and South Islands are too long and it’s ridiculous to even think of changing them.

    They have always been known as North and South Islands (so much easier) in documents dating back for probably as long as they have been written down so are well entrenched.

    We certainly don’t want to copy Canada. All over, apart from the French side in the East, there are dual names but in the French part you only have the names in French. At the time we visited, we thought how ridiculous it was and it consequently lowered our impression of the French. Very one sided.

    1. I agree whith most of what you say Helen, but I put languishes in the same category as endangered species once it’s gone we are all the poorer for it. Don’t want to sound patronizing but if left to Maori ??

  6. Bill, I thought we were all New Zealanders and we were until about 30 years ago. Now we are heading down the divisive separatist racist path so ‘New Zealander’ is certainly an endangered species. We must fight tooth and nail to keep it and ensure that it applies to everyone in this country regardless of race.

    We can still retain our individual ethnicities but it would be a personal thing and not one ethnicity foisted upon the rest of us who don’t want it. Even less so now that we are forced to endure it at every turn and in every aspect of our lives. We are becoming very definitely anti everything ‘Maori’ because of it, whereas we used to willingly embrace it all previously.

    I’m not ‘Maori’ and don’t want anything to do with it in my life, unless I choose to. It’s the same with my Scottish heritage. I certainly wouldn’t dream of forcing it on others.

    1. Please don’t take this personally Helen , but replace the word Maori with Pakeha in paragraphs 2 and 3 and Honi could have written it.

  7. Hi folks,just read in the Herald the racist JT and Willie shows ratings are down by 50%,oh dear.wonder why, let’s hope JA is starting to get some traction.

    Also noted, same article,that Radio Live is 50% owned by— you guessed it, the nz herald,

    1. I would say people are starting to see them for what they are, Albert. Racists through and through and are turned off by it.

    2. Thanks for that Albert interesting reading. I was surprised and pleased to see Mike Hosking’s share of the Auckland market. He has made supportive comments on air previously.

    3. I have looked on The Herald website but the ratings aren’t there. Are you able to give the specifics of the actual ratings, Albert? Many thanks if you can.

  8. I don’t really get the relevance, Bill, because nothing else is being foisted on anyone. If you are trying to imply that other than ‘Maori’ are foisting their culture on ‘Maori’ you are quite wrong.

    I’m not sure how to put this but will try. Maori in 1840 were not only a Stone Age culture but had been plundering up and down the country killing and eating each other non-stop and practising infanticide with female babies. They could have eventually died out altogether. However, a group of Chiefs pleaded to be taken under the wing of the British Crown so that they could become more civilised as they had experienced civilisation through their trips away on boats and also from living amongst the increasing number of settlers and could see it was a much better way to live.

    So to cut a long story short eventually the Treaty was signed to bring everyone under the one law, equally. Living what was the ‘Maori’ way up until then was not wanted by the people who signed the Treaty, so they joined civilisation and became civilised. To do that they had to leave the Maori way behind but there was absolutely nothing stopping them pursuing their own culture (without the violence of course) at any time as a personal thing.

    Granted there was a period when notable Maori leaders decided that English was to be spoken at all times in the schools etc (obviously not in the home though) but this was done to bring about change amongst those who were slow to adapt. There was nothing to stop mothers teaching the language to their children at home.

    The way we live together today is the civilised way and is even that much more civilised now than even the settlers were in 1840. So I repeat myself and say that none of my culture is foisted on anyone or absolutely everyone, so why should Maori culture be? I used to love hearing ‘Maori’ singing etc but we have been so railroaded with ‘Maori’ culture in absolutely everything we do in the past 30 or so years, that we are absolutely turned off anything to do with it and I will resist all the way now. I’m totally Maoried out as are many I’m sure.

    I hope you can see where I’m coming from, Bill, in this brief explanation and please don’t take it personally either. We are now all New Zealanders, or should be. That in itself is now a culture. Through inter-marriage and living our lives together we are a great blend of many cultures. There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone pursuing their own culture in a personal way but none of us want anything foisted upon us that we don’t choose to have. I haven’t chosen to learn the Gaelic language and certainly don’t want to learn the Maori one, which by the way was written down by the dreadful settlers using their own alphabet and has been much re-invented and added to over the years because Maori just didn’t have words for anything other than primitive things..

  9. Dear Helen ,
    So you are all Maoried out. Ok, so the problem is this so called founding treaty document ,which exploits most of the N Z taxpayers is completely irrelevant in today’s totally absorbed kiwi land. I am lead to believe that NZ has no written constitution, why??
    One law for all, the will to look after those who are in need , the govt of the day to protect the human rights of all N Z ers. How bloody hard can it be?? Helen put all your efforts into a positive N Z written constitution that will serve all.
    Let’s face it nothing will chang, the bottom of the heap will always be the bottom of the heap, at least it won’t have a race base.

  10. Bill you said –

    ‘Let’s face it nothing will change, the bottom of the heap will always be the bottom of the heap, at least it won’t have a race base.’

    But that’s the problem, Bill. It WILL have a race base – that’s if the panel get their way – and they surely will as everything race based has won out so far and the panel is racially slanted.

    In 1986 our Constitution, which is made up of various laws, was looked at by a panel and deemed to need no alteration whatsoever. So, why are we visiting it 7 years later? Because the Maori Party want us to. And what do they hope to achieve? Because of the appeasing National Party they KNOW they will achieve what they dearly want and that is for the Treaty to be enshrined into the Constitution!!

    Now if we had the correct Treaty in legislation, or they acknowledged the correct and only Treaty is the Maori version, there would be no problem. However, they have an earlier English draft in legislation and this is what is causing all the problems because it mentions ‘Forests and Fisheries’ which the Maori one doesn’t and it has left out ‘and all the people of New Zealand’ in Article Two. The Maori version has these words.

    Seeing the English and Maori versions don’t mirror each other and they couldn’t tease anything else out of the simple little Treaty, dear old Geoffery Palmer dreamed up some new Principles called ‘the Principles of the Treaty’ and enshrined them in legislation in 1986. All our woes have stemmed from this time. They are fake – a fraud and an enormous fraud is being perpetuated on the rest of the citizens of this country.

    However, in 1989, 3 years after the Principles of the Treaty were invented, the final English draft from which the Maori version was translated turned up in some papers that had been held dating back to 1840. This treaty is dated a day later than the English one in legislation, contains the words ‘and all the people of New Zealand’ as in the Maori version and omits Forests and Fisheries which is omitted from the Maori version also.

    Even though they have been told many times, about having the wrong one in legislation, our slippery successive Governments refuse to acknowledge that it is the final draft even though it mirrors the Maori version which the earlier draft does not.

    So perhaps you can see where I’m coming from, Bill. Our Constitution does not need to be changed and if it is you can guarantee it will enshrine the false Treaty in it. The panel is made up of one half people of Maori descent but three of the other half have Maori affiliations, one is contributing goodness knows what so will probably go with the majority. There is only one out of the panel who just might vote against the wishes of the Maori Party and that is not going to change their views is it. The whole thing should be put to a referendum and the people should decide, not some racially slanted panel.

    I seem to have verbal diarrhoea today – sorry about that but I don’t think you know all the facts.

  11. You are so right Helen, I don’t know all the facts. My old mind wants to simplify it all, and I know that’s easier said than done. All I know is that we are spending more money than we can afford on the so called sins of our fathers. The Moari are a blessed nation being brought in to the twentieth century without the pain of working through several hundreds years. Nothing you or I can talk about can span that gap in evolution the Moari need your help wheather you realize it or not.

    1. Well, after 200 years of European colonisation and its many benefits, when do you think they might no longer need our help ? And when do you think a prominent Maori might get around to saying “thank you” ?? 200 years – that is around 7 generations ffs !!

      1. You are right John – an extraordinary amount of benefits and not a thank you to be heard!!.

        Bill, they don’t actually need our help as has been shown by the many decent people of Maori descent who have made their own way by their own efforts. Sadly all too many of them have crossed the ditch to Oz to make a decent life for themselves away from all the tribal treaty nonsense.

        The problem with the ones in the negative statistics is that they have a bad attitude, lack motivation and above all do not seek to get a decent education which is available to everyone. It is partly the fault of their parents for not instilling aspiration in them. One would think the parents would be determined for their children to make their own way and not be like them but it doesn’t seem to work that way. There is a cycle of benefit and ‘you owe me’ dependency unfortunately.

      2. John,
        I spent 10 years in PNG when Aust. tried to drag the peoples of P N G through 5000 years. Millions of dollars year after year airports, universities , agriculture, etc.etc. To the average person in Aust. a total waste of billions of dollars. Have they ever said thank you ? Don’t think so bud. After independence the Honi,s saw to a complete reversal to tribal rule, and all the years of prosperity under Aust . rule was just a memory.
        Will Maori ever say thank you ! to answer your question, don’t think so bud.

      3. @ Bill, I also have worked in PNG and there is no comparison between maori & PNGians in my opinion. Maoris use it as an excuse, but they arrived in 2013 on a wave of industrialisation and inventions etc…the same as most of us, that started 200 years ago. There are African families in NZ who into their second generation are highly skilled doctors etc, yet they could have a far better excuse to fail than maori. Tribalism is not in their DNA because maoris do just fine in Australia without tribes. Just my opinion.

    2. Bill, what do you mean several hundred years? The polynesians found living here were stone age in all respects, that makes them thousand of years behind not just a few hundred. Do you really think if left to their own devises the maoris would have invented the wheel, a written language, aquaducts, sewer systems, steam power etc etc? You must be kidding. The maori should be so grateful to the British for freely giving all their intellectual property to a stone age group of tribes and doing all they could to help bring them up to speed. In fact that gift of science and technology would be worth thousands of times all the land and resources in NZ don’t you think?? Did they get any thanks? At the time it seems they did, trouble is the activists today who a happy to use the benefits of all that future tech that has made NZ what it is seem to have forgotten that very generous gift. Don’t you agree? If not why not?

    1. Hi Trina,
      The word evolution best describes the works of Charles Darwin.
      In simple terms all life on the planet is in a state of evolving.
      You can throw millions of dollars at say a family of gorillas in say a 10 year period to try and drag the family to be as smart as a chimpanzee family and you will fail, no Iffs no buts. Why?
      Because it takes thousands of years to evolve.We all agree that that is the case with animals. Now we all know thats how it works with all the other animals, but not the human animal they were all born of Adam, and Eve, all born equal eh. And all evolved at the same rate eh!

      1. Speaking of evolution and associated reasons for delayed development of certain global populations. The early migrations of humans out of Africa has been studied in some detail and has found that the earliest migrants, the aboriginals, have the lowest IQ found outside Africa. The stidies have also found that groups that migrated out of Africa later and migrated north were forced to evolve a higher intelligence to deal with the challenges of the ice age which ended about 11,000 years ago. As a result, the ethnic groups of the world that have the highest intelligence are the middle asians and europeans, and those with the lowest IQ’s are those that never faced these challenges and migrated to warmer climates, such as the polynesians. The humans that never left Africa and those that left africa the earliest (the aboriginals) have the lowest of all as those that never left never needed to adapt to a major change in way of life, and the aboriginals were able to make their way along the coast of asia, india and eventually cross a land bridge that existed to Australia at that time. Eventually the land bridge disappeared and the aboriginals were essentially trapped with a fairly small gene pool, which means they retain many features of the earliest humans.

        The point is that in all probability, if left to their own devices these peoples (without the adaptability of the asians and europeans) would never have reached the level of technology or civilization that was seen through europe and asia over the last 10,000 years or more. It is these higher iQ groups who have spread the technology throughout the world through exploration and trade and empire buiding. Some of these isolated lower IQ groups should probably show some appreciation of the cultures that shared their gifts of intelligence with them shouldn’t they?

    1. Thanks dd interesting article. I wonder how many other visitors to this country think the same but are to polite to comment.

  12. They have something in Denmark that we do not have here….politicians with a backbone prepared to tell the truth!

  13. I hate the haka. When I see non moari fellas doing it, I feel they are either raving, gutless lefties or live their lives in fear of offending maori, much like all of our politicians.

  14. I cringe with embarrassment when some foreign visitor must suffer through another haka. I wonder what most truly honestly think….as opposed to what they say ( bearing in mind the Political Correctness that most fear being called a “racist”…even for a simple truth). Has anyone else noticed how a “spontaneous” “impromptu” haka usually bursts out at the first sight of a TV camera? And the TV stations are too afraid to edit the entire haka from their news item for fear of being labelled racist. I would also love to know what salary these professional haka dancers are on ( taxpayer money of course) to “greet” every overseas official that arrives in NZ. I suspect it is a very lucrative salary.

  15. Spollyike.
    Thank you for your most articulate response to evolutinon. So why is it do you think, that not one politician in any of the political parties will go to bat on behalf of the european peoples who has uplifted a primative warring Maori people into the twentieth century to live in peace.
    Just how is it that the wonderful lifestyle modern Maori enjoys is never put up in counter balance to the claims of yesterday.
    The thousands of years of battles, of inventions, religious wars, and the Renaissance , to mention only a few. The Maori was spared it all, gently lifted through thousands of years of trials. And no one seems to think it’s worth mentioning.
    Buggers belief really.

  16. Is this part of the ‘consultation myth’ that the debates on Radio NZ are at a time when a lot of people watch the TV News programs?

    The below was recorded by court reporters from an actual trial (aside from the last five words that are my own)

    ATTORNEY: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: Did you check for blood pressure?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: Did you check for breathing?
    WITNESS: No..
    ATTORNEY: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?
    WITNESS: No.
    ATTORNEY: How can you be so sure, Doctor?
    WITNESS: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.
    ATTORNEY: I see, but could the patient have still been alive, nevertheless?
    WITNESS: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law (with plans to enter politics).

    1. That dizzy dumb blonde interviewing David Round is one of those brainwashed I-wish-I-was-a-maori reporters…a prerequisite for a TV mouth these days.

    2. There is a season on the constitution coming to Nelson soon. I need to be informed. It seems over a third of the voting populace are asleep. We simply must keep the Treaty principles out of a new constitution for our country. It sounds like we don’t even need a constitution .

      1. Jonathan, they will be in Nelson at the NMIT on 27 August 1-5pm.

        You are so right, we MUST keep the Treaty and the invented Principles out of the Constitution. It will be disastrous because they don’t resemble the real Maori Treaty and will make the rest of us second class citizens. It will grant so much to those of Maori descent that won’t be able to others.

        It’s amazing how many people think the simple little Treaty is a living document and must go on and on. They think the Principles of the Treaty are fine and don’t realise they are an invention and were put into legislation in 1986. We also need to get rid of the Maori Seats as there is a good proportion of Maori representation now in Parliament without them. Well over the proportion of those identifying as ‘Maori’.

        It’s very obvious the consultation process with other than Maori is well under the radar as many don’t know they will be here. Where is the advertising? Why isn’t it being held in a public hall instead of being tucked away in a Student building in the middle of a Polytech complex? I could go on and on but please be there Jonathan and tell as many people as you can.

  17. Thank you Duane for providing the link to the 3 News article.

    David Round responded very well.

    I have to say I am growing very, very tired of the predictable responses from opposition to the arguments against the Treaty being placed in the Constitution.

    People are so tunnel visioned regarding the Treaty.

    They hone in on the emotive issue of Iwi not getting their settlements, and dragging out the same old stories about “Crown injustices perpetrated against the Maori” they degenerate the whole topic into an issue about race.

    But this is not about ethnicity or culture or Maori feelings.

    This is about something so much more important – its about our countries future and that of our fellow man regardless of who they are.

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