Bay of Plenty Times, Bob Clarkson, Putea Maori, Social Housing Unit

85% of BoP Times readers vote ‘No’ to funding Maori homes

Poll - BoP Times - Maori housing 19-4-13

Another 80%+ rejection of Maori privilege — this time by readers of the Bay of Plenty Times to the provision of race-based housing.

One of the gutsier Nats, the man who drove Winston Peters out of Tauranga, Bob Clarkson, champions the unfashionable view:

The money will be used to build 12 large family homes and the infrastructure for eight more. It has come from Putea Maori, a $13 million capital grant fund available to Maori for the purpose of increasing affordable rental housing.

Putea Maori is part of the Social Housing Unit, which has set aside $104 million during three years (2012-15) to help people get good quality homes through community housing.

Housing project trustee Victoria Kingi said Maori tended to be worse off and in desperate need of affordable homes.

But Mr Clarkson said it was not fair for one section of the community to be eligible for funds when many in the wider population also suffered.

The city council last year “shot down” his plan to provide 1000 affordable homes for $280,000 each. Everyone should be able to access affordable housing, no matter what colour their skin was, he said.


89 thoughts on “85% of BoP Times readers vote ‘No’ to funding Maori homes

  1. Yet another Maori privilege. There must be many non-Maori who are also in dire need. All of this racist assistance and treatment must be halted. How on earth do we get through to these people that it is pure racism?!!

    1. Quite right, assistance should (should) be given based on need, not race but we all know that doesn’t happen in NZ.

    2. Hahaha 85% of readers… Who reads this paper? What is the % of Pakeha readers to Maori readers? This article seems to be fueling hatred towards Maori.
      Does anyone remember when the solders that returned from a Pakeha driven war, were just handed land? Now that’s a privilege.

      The funny thing is, Pakeha have just taken what they’ve wanted in the past e.g. Governance over our country, land, control over the laws that are implemented, privileges to go to better schools, with better teachers (whom don’t hit children), better teach systems, which will lead into better jobs, which tend to be owned by their family or friends, which then set them up for a better life.

      Maori on the other hand, have had to adapt to Pakeha law, we don’t tend to have good schooling, which tends to lead us down a path of destruction, Our parents tend to struggle to even find a job that will pay the bills (we would love to work our dream jobs but we were never given the education or the opportunity), Our parent tend to be stressed due to a lack of finance, which tends to leads into family violence, and we wonder why we turn to gangs…
      We are unfairly targeted by the police who is controlled by government.
      Now this could go on and on and yes there must be many non-Maori that are in need of support. You should be looking at your government, as they tend to be spending our taxes on things we don’t need e.g. lets take money out of schools to create a bike track??? Turn your energy away from stupid polls like this and target government.

      Before you play they race card, remember you must walk a mile in the other persons shoes before you judge. Especially when you stereotype a whole race of people.

      1. You just stereotyped two races of people!

        Grievers like you have been making excuses like this for too long. You won’t get any respect unless you drop the victim mentality.

        The British were invaded by four foreign powers, not just one: the Romans, the Vikings, the Anglo-Saxons and the French. Each invasion did much more damage than British colonisation did to Maori. They also brought improvements – though nowhere near as many improvements as the British brought Maori.

        Unstead of denying and moaning, try embracing all the opportunities you’ve been offered. Don’t get bitter. Get better.

      2. At the risk of being accused of stereotyping when all I’m doing is pointing out a demographic:

        – There are a certain demographic of people in the BOP (age and race)
        – That demographic would all be highly motivated to respond to a questionnaire such as that, whereas anyone else would just ignore it.

        You’d get a completely different result nationwide, or in Auckland, or Northland, for example.

      3. I am aware of twelve polls of one sort or another, from CloseUp on TVNZ to binding referenda in Waikato and Nelson, to similar polls in Wanganui, Rotorua and New Plymouth.

        All say the same thing: 80% of New Zealanders (give or take a couple of percentage points) don’t want racial favouritism.

        One exception was the Wairoa referendum, where the anti-favouritism figure was only 53%. That was because half the population of Wairoa is Maori.

        But even there, a large percentage of Wairoa Maori – including the Maori deputy mayor – voted No to the question of whether to have a Maori ward.

      4. Most of what you say is too stupid to warrant spending any time on. The main thing is that you are plain wrong in nearly every prejudiced, ill-informed assertion. The majority of NZers do NOT want special funding and priority given to any one racial group, and believe that assistance can only be justified by need, not race. Poll after poll proves that at least 80% of us don’t agree with special consideration for Maoris – or any other racial group. Simple as that.

  2. Speaking of MPs in Tauranga, the current one we have…Simon Bridges, has refused for over 6 months to answer any questions re the Constitutional Reform Panel and its heavily biased composition. And last year, when ‘Closeup’ did a poll on whether or not maori were special and deserved special privileges, they went to Parliament and asked unsuspecting MPs coming out a door. Bridges, without a chance to compose his usual sitting-on-the-fence reply, categorically stated maori did deserve special rights and privileges in his impromptu reply. Make no mistake, this non-commital fence sitter supports maori privilege but can not be drawn to make any comment on it. It’s a real pity we lost Clarkson to this slimey racist.

    1. Helen did the brave thing and joined her local National Party just so she could stand up at the AGM and put a ‘colourblind state’ motion.

      You might like to tell us what happened, Helen. It’s a good template for people in other areas – like Tauranga.

      1. A very effective and relatively cheap way to deal to Mr Bridges among others is to hire a megaphone and sit outside his Tauranga office demanding he answer questions that will have a profound impact on his constituents. Trust me, it gets a response.

      1. Bill, I dont think you understand the people (a loose term) you are dealing with in the Labour and National political heirarchy. They don’t care a jot about fact, truth, honesty or democracy and they sure arent going to take any notice of a few “whingers on the fringes” which is all they think we are.

        Mainstream NZ dont even care because they are oblivious to the damage that the separatism and transfer of property right is doing. When they wake up and its all done and dusted it will be too late.

    2. Derejk let’s face it any MP who swims against the Maori tide will drown. Make no mastake about that. If you could have a beer and a chat with most M Ps they would find it difficult to explain away the race policies , and with a $100,000 a year at stake you have no show bro. The statuesque is the way to go.

  3. Thanks, John. Yes, it was an education to put it mildly. First of all, before the meeting started the person who I had arranged to second my Motion called me over to talk to the Chairman (who was giving up the Chair at that meeting) and he told me that it would pointless me putting my Motion because it would only get as far as Christchurch and go no further.

    I’m sure I would have been ignored but after the proceedings were almost finished I put my hand up and asked if I could speak. Rather grudgingly I thought, the Chairman nodded to me. So, I got up to speak to my so-called motion and then finished by telling the people I had been going to propose a Motion but had been advised that it wouldn’t get further than Christchurch. However, I would now tell them what I had been going to propose and ask their views and then sat down. I’ve since heard from someone at the meeting that Nick’s face went red when I started to speak!!

    Amazingly, one person said something I didn’t catch and then another person seconded it, even though I hadn’t proposed. There was no show of hands as is usual so perhaps they were afraid Nick would be embarrassed. At the end of the meeting Nick’s secretary who had been taking minutes asked me if I had a copy of my proposed Motion so I gave her one.

    Also at the meeting was a piece of paper on every chair advising that a new Policy group had been set up and gave an email address of the Chair. I emailed him and asked if there was any way I could be involved in it. A couple of days later I was asked to attend their meeting in 2 days time at a certain time of half an hour (as a guest!!) to discuss my Motion and to bring 10 copies with me. So I liaised with Mike Butler and he devised a new ‘comment’ to precede a new Motion. Many thanks to Mike!!

    Nick spoke to the meeting after my speech and was shot down by a couple of people. He knows full well what the situation is.

    When I got to the meeting they were right on time and said I could say what I had to say and then I would have to leave the room while they discussed it and be brought back later. I gave them (there were only 7 there) all a copy and they proceeded to read it quickly. One them then asked me if I would like to speak and I told them they had just read it but would they like me to read it again. We then discussed my new Motion and that’s when I found that the earlier Motion I had not ended up proposing at the AGM had been put into their Minutes. I said I would prefer the new Motion to take its place and was asked to email everything to the Chairman so he could send it to Christchurch for consideration – which I later did. I then told them how I had been told at the AGM that my proposal wouldn’t get past Christchurch and asked if I was wasting my and their time.

    I was told by one chap that what I was proposing was against Government policy. I then asked him why Government policy couldn’t be changed as it had been many times in the past?! I was also told to read ‘Children of the Mist’ to learn how Tuhoe had been abominably treated. I refuted that by telling how Tuhoe had had their land confiscated for very good reason etc and that much of it had been given back anyway.

    My session lasted the whole half hour and I didn’t have to leave the room. There was so much I didn’t have time to say. To cap it off, one of the committee members escorted me to the door and told me quietly that they WOULD listen in Christchurch. I sincerely hope she is right.

    An experience but worthwhile I thought and I urge others to do the same. Don’t be fobbed off and John’s excellent earlier advice of how to be confident certainly paid off. I wasn’t even a little bit nervous and it would be right out of my usual comfort zone. I felt the knowledge that I felt I was right and someone was going to have to do this helped enormously too. I’m now sure Nick will view me in a certain way(?!) but I really don’t care. He certainly knows how I feel from correspondence with him dating way back. If nothing happens, at least I tried.

    1. Helen ….well done.
      Our biggest national problem is not saying what we think lest the ideology bulldozer turns on us….and we may be called names.
      We white NZers are way too polite and get trampled.
      You spoke up when the cards were stacked against you.
      From polls Ive seen around 80% of NZers are sick to death of the maorification of everything and all we are asking is racial equality rather than racial priviledge.
      That cant be a bad thing…we fought for it against S.A. in 1980 but the paradox is we seem reluctant to fight for it in NZ?…bizzare.

      1. Thanks everyone. I do hope someone else will do a similar thing as I did. Let’s tell our local politician we have had enough.

    2. Go HELEN!!!

      In a much smaller way, but a likewise vein, we’ve just sent the below to Nick in response to a letter from him.

      21 April 2013
      Attn: Nick Smith

      Hi Nick,
      Really appreciate that you took the time to reply to us as we believe that your party, notably Keys and Finlayson, are putting into place measures that are destructive to our whole way of life causing racial division and inequalities, while also on the way to bankrupting the country through backward looking irresponsible governance.
      Maybe the above sound like ‘trendy sayings’ but they’re not . . . .

      We believe that most NZers have no problem with genuine Maori grievances (although no-one has been compensated for the Second World War etc.)….
      But you’d have to be naïve to think New Zealanders will be united in the future when Government, both past and incumbent, have forced race based, divisive legislation on us and made decisions where part- Maori ‘bludge’ off the vast majority of the country without the majority consent and which will continue into the future.
      To make it worse, this is based on an irrefutable ‘false’ English draft of the Treaty which has been included in NZ’s legislation by Geoffrey Palmer (a foolish destructive measure against democracy) who then went on to invent five principles, again from the false treaty draft, which then miraculously turns into a partnership between Maori and the Crown.

      Incredibly the Treaty, which fulfilled its’ purpose in the 1800’s, is now regarded by National Party politicians (and others to whom it suits) as a living document which really means the treaty can be manipulated to say whatever claimants wish.

      You must be dreaming if you think the majority of NZers will support this.

      NZers have been treacherously betrayed by not being informed of the truth; that the ‘Littlewood’ Treaty draft and the Te Tiriti match each other word for word leaving absolutely no doubt as to its’ intention.
      There is absolutely NO co-governance, NO rights granted to anyone based on race, NO fisheries or Forests specially for Maori in the Te Tiriti O Waitangi and it states that it’s a Treaty for ALL NZers, Maori and settlers.

      “One Law, One People”
      Said Captain Hobson as he shook signatory Chiefs by hand.

      When the majority of NZers find out the truth about the Treaty, as they will, they will be as spewing as we are – Treatygate is just the beginning!

      You mention that the claim over the airwaves has little substance Nick (and we whole heartedly agree) yet your Government gave $30 million compensation to part-Maori for the government refusing to indulge the tribal fantasy that the recently discovered 4G radio spectrum is a sacred taonga!!!!

      We believe that at some time there will be a Tribunal set up for NON-Maori to redress the very real injustices being inflicted on us the last thirty to forty years and in particular right now.

      We cannot understand you condoning this Nick based on our interactions with you in past years!

      Claims being recklessly approved now will be investigated and claims proven to be false (IE: Not based on the TRUE Treaty and NZ’s TRUE history not rewritten history) will be returned to ALL NZers.
      Winston Peters and Helen Clark got so close to a full enquiry into the Littlewood Treaty some years ago, 2004 we think it was before the politics of the day changed.

      Unfortunately you may yet get to be part of that civil unrest in the future Nick if nothing changes soon . . .

      You said that you’ve studied the Treaty and its issues Nick, well so have we. We can only assume that you’ve read revisionist history from the likes of Damn Orange who is both a Key Government and T.O.W. Tribunal ‘lapdog’ with no integrity.

      Let’s not overlook that fact that our National Museum, Te Papa, has on display a forgery of Hobson’s signature on the false treaty draft and displays the Littlewood Treaty in a way that its’ date, its’ second article and the fact that it’s relevant to both Maori and settlers are obscured on her watch knowing that the Littlewood Treaty has the potential to upset Maori, decision makers and to correct history.

      Orange is scathing of ‘amateur’ historians yet Martin Doutre thoroughly investigated the ‘Littlewood’ Treaty and even tracked down three copies of it in America and discovered how they arrived there.
      So who’s the real historian; the one with a title and letters after her name or someone who knuckles down to find out the true history with little financial gain or fanfare?

      John Keys and Chris Finlayson are rubbing noses with part-Maori activists, hardly the soul of Maori despite all they say and grab for themselves and elite others.
      Why should 90% of the country be held back from modern views and advances based on superstition and myths?

      Cultures change over the years throughout the whole planet or they become extinct.

      Sure, Maori myths and history should not be overlooked and they are integral to who we are as a country – yet, a ‘taniwha’ holding up progress only departing when iwi are compensated has little reality to today’s world and as you say the claims are getting more and more obtuse and ridiculous.

      We are disappointed in you Nick; we thought you had more common-sense… …
      We are however, keen to hear your further comments though Nick as this is an issue we’re passionate about with the interests of the country we are leaving NZ’s dependants in mind.

      Regards, Carol & Rob

      1. Awesome scribe Rob & Carol and yet again well done Helen.

        The words / actions of you all as described in this post I find to be both inspirational and exciting.

        Could the snowball finally be picking up speed and growing in size? it certainly appears so, Together New Zealand! we are only limited by our imaginations / actions and of course the revisionist historians spouting of unsubstantiated opinions / indoctrination for an apparent personal gain that we as a Nation are expected to unquestionably accept as “Truth”.

        Nil Bastardo Carborundum (don’t let the bastards grind you down).

      2. National has dropped in the latest polls. Could our efforts or others of a like mind be a small part of the reason??!! I hope so.

        I also wonder how much the homosexual marriage bill is playing too but that’s off topic.

        Perhaps people are starting to see them for what they over a number of issues.

      3. Excellent stuff, Rob!! Well said. I couldn’t have put it better myself. Actually I have written in a similar vein to Nick over the years. When he was in opposition he agreed with me but when he got into power he switched completely the other way. How’s that for a sincere honest politician?? It makes you stop and think doesn’t it.

      4. “Winston Peters and Helen Clark got so close to a full enquiry into the Littlewood Treaty some years ago, 2004 we think it was before the politics of the day changed.”

        Peters and Clark deserve nothing but contempt from us all. They both flagrantly abused all New Zealanders by concealing the huge democratic relevance of the Busby Final Draft knowing full well what the document was and what it meant to us all as a nation.

        Every NZ prime minister and party has chosen to ignore the truth and they too deserve the contempt of us all.

  4. Well done Helen.

    The funding for this Maori only housing project is being spent to add houses onto a piece of land the local tribalists own in an area called Te Maunga, just along State Highway 2 from Baypark speedway.

    There are already 8 or 10 units on it, built a couple of years ago. (Interestingly they all have satellite TV dishes on them for the apparently penniless occupants)
    The intention to turn this into a modern day Maori enclave (or perhaps ghetto?) is well underway.

    If I were to attempt build a whites only village I would not get past planning stage and could quite well be prosecuted for the attempt to promote racially segregated housing.

    I am firmly of the belief that the only way for a society of mixed ethnic backgrounds to have any chance of living together in harmony is if they are free to and perhaps even encouraged to live alongside each other as neighbours in the manner that reflects the mongrel bitser ancestoral backgrounds most of us have.

    Quite apart from the racist and unfair nature of the funding provided, this type of segregated housing can only be to the further detriment of racial harmony and equality in our country.

    1. You are absolutely correct, Mike, It is not just detrimental to racial harmony, it actively encourages racial disharmony. I know of several instances among state housing zones, where a family of non-maori moves into a flat or house and the maori tennants take bets on how short a time it will take before HNZ Corp has to move the new arrivals due to cruel harrassment and intimidation. This scenario is very common.

      Prior to the 1960s, most state housing was built in two or three houses among other privately-owned houses and thetennants were assimilated quite peacefully and became part of a local community. However, then the govt built huge housing estates such as Otara in Auckland, just over the State Highway 1 from Papatoetoe. Talk about ‘the other side of the tracks’ it quickly became a ghetto and remains so – boozing, violence, child abuse and now in the media, under-aged prostitution and crime generally.

      The govt was warned that this would happen, but have continued the crazy policy ever since.

      Democracy (real democracy) by referenda seems to be the only way to go

    1. Why on earth we need another small party is not clear to me.
      The Conservative Party is all that Muriel Newman could wish for and more. ‘Hang together or hang separately’. Is there some thing I am missing. Please enlighten me some one. cheers.D

      1. Everyone with the same end in mind must unite into one. It will just split the vote otherwise and achieve nothing.

      2. I agree and this point is being missed or ignored. Muriel Newman and John Ansell need to put their ego’s to one side (if that is the problem and I suspect it is because they are both human and political) and work together because the exisiting fragmentation will not deliver success.

        Both Muriel and John need to understand that it is fine to stand independently of political parties but only the influence of a third political party will deliver the change required. Forget ACT and NZF because they have lost all credibility on this issue.

        Muriel and John need to be in concert with Colin Craig driving this issue for 2014. Colin needs to man up and front foot this issue NOW on behalf of the country.

      3. I agree with you KC. Above all, we don’t want to split the vote. We need one Party that everyone with our concerns can get behind. Together I’m sure we could have a bit of clout.

  5. Good on you Helen. Sock it to em!! Anyone see this phoney Pita Whatever, on the TV news tonight? A maori filmmaker doing a film about PI’s in the two wars? See that ridiculous feather contraption he had in his hair? Obviously anyone who wears a feather in their hair has instant mana and respect as a indigenous native struggling to come to terms with the 21st century technology. Looked a right phoney fake plastic plonker!

    1. Actually Derejk, we don’t have TV so never saw it, but we’ve read that the Morioris wore the feather as a symbol of peace and pacifism.
      Ironically the Maoris that squatted at Parihaka stole that symbol of pacifism (after killing all but 101 Morioris) and were wearing the feather to give a false image of their intentions (albeit they had a cache of guns nearby) when they threatened to run the settlers into the sea we read.

      Maybe one of you can confirm this or not ….

      We suspect (or wonder) that he may have worn that feather more as a ‘gang patch’ or symbol of solidarity with war mongering Tuhoe & Huas Huas ???

  6. Helen, April 21 6: 47
    Helen do you believe that ,a one law for all poicy, would gain greater support from a Labour led Government?
    I only ask because your comment would suggest this.
    The Labour party have traditionally been the champions of the poor, and those who need the support of the tax payer. Not sure how they would sell the one law for all policy, or even be seen to entertain the idea.
    Just interested in how you see the “no special race base policies” being supported by the big players in politics.

    1. There is zero chance that you will get any help from Labour or National because both of these parties have been complicit in the coverup. Not only that it was Labour through Geoffrey Palmer and his 4th Labour government that destroyed this countrys democracy.

    2. Goodness, Bill, where on earth did my comment suggest I could support Labour? Never – ever. I must have put that very badly. Labour would have the Greens with them and that would be a huge disaster for our country.

      No, if anything I would support whoever proposes One Law for all or Equality under the law for everyone, whether John forms a Party for this or someone else does, or the Conservatives and/or NZ First have it in their election manifesto. But – Labour? No thanks.

      1. Thank you Helen that’s very clear.
        You see Helen most of my circle of friends have done reasonably well over the years, and most of the Maori comments were about the Maori parking ( disabled) at the supermarket or the deliberate amble across the road, or the self taught Maori accent when speaking English , small irritations which were followed by a laugh

        BUT in the last year or so I have noticed a change . Some are looking closely at the endless amounts of money being tipped into the Maori machine with seemingly no progress in Maori development,in the real world.

        One of my friends made the comment that with all the money that has been handed out to Maori, how come all the local daries are owned by Indians. The same could be said for the food growers industry. You see Maori have the land/ money to invest ,but why work ? When the productive people of N Z just keep giving.

        So I don’t agree with K C when he said zero chance, because the tide is turning , people are beginning to not ask but demand some return on the Maori investment and National and Labour simply won’t be able to ignore it for ever.

  7. someone in the know could u please tell us if this no confidence party is the one NBR alluded to recently that has powerful financial backing “that could create an earthquake in NZ politics”?

  8. Seems to be a lot of hate being spouted here against the Maori’s who now only own around 2% of all the land while the immigrant colonialist Pakeha now own the other 98% along with all the minerals and other vast resources whereupon Maori are not able to own anything below about half a meter. As far as I am aware they also cannot obtain mainstream funding with multiple owned land unlike the Pakeha can with General Land. Thus it is obvious these legalistic imaginary ”risk” of loan default banker imposed impediments would be a powerful obstacle towards gaining mainstream funding commonly available to the pale people for housing even though the houses would be built on their lands. It is highly unlike the Maori would ever move and as is their custom they would had the land and house to thier immediate next of kin who would in all likelihood take over any outstanding mortgage payments. It seems odd funding for Maori housing is extremely difficult to come by and especially so when the accumulated income earned which is also taxed by the way via the Maori Trustee’s management of vast tracts of land is no longer available. These funds as far as I am aware now form part of the Housing Corporation’s annual budget? Why or am I wrong my analysis even though I have probed into the matter and have found it rather interesting few loans have been allocated to Maori applicants. Judging from what I have read here I would assume commentators have much to say about it? Could our Mr Ansel please give his views. One curious fact Mr Ansel has not answered is the issue of continually rising rates levied against Maori multiple owned lands for which it is very very difficult to obtain funding to develop commercial enterprises upon and even if such is a venture should succeed the valuation of the property climbs accordingly each year along with a subsequent rise in rates. I don’t think one has to be a rocket scientist to work out that it would not take long for the rates to become rather unmanageable. Oh an lets not forget the GST, and Business and income tax levied upon the whole commercial enterprise.

    1. Oh dear me Captain. Are you one of the perpetrators of this crime against the peoples of New Zealand, or are you one of the ‘useful fools’?

      Either way you spout so much nonsense. You posted on the topic of ‘Maori housing’ in the BOP. You claim that ‘Maori’ own only 2% of the land in the country. This is arrant nonsense.

      The statistic in the BOP is about 33% of the land. Maori are declared as being 26% of the BOP population. Even the most uneducated can get their head around the fact then that Maori therefore own considerably more land per head than the general populace per head. And this was before the latest round of settlements that took even more from universal ownership and gifted even more to ‘Maori’.

      But it gets far worse. The 26% of population figure includes all those who have a tiny proportion of Maori blood and do not specifically call themselves ‘Maori’ or partake in any general ‘tribal’ activity. The actual number of Maori identifying as ‘tribal Maori’ is far less than 26%, probably more like 10 – 15%. Therefore tribal Maori own and are in control of around 3 times as much land as the average non Maori.

      And still they moan and complain, say they are disadvantaged and want more. And still they get it from the increasingly impoverished majority of the population.

      Why is it ‘highly unlikely’ that Maori would ever move? They did so numerous times in the past when they slaughtered & drove others from their lands and vice versa. Large numbers of part Maori have moved all over the country and indeed world. The custom to hand to the next generation is far more a European tradition than a Maori one.

      As for the rest of your post, individual Maori exist in society and have the same rights and abilities (in actual fact far more rights as we now know) as the general populace when it comes to finance, Mortgages etc.

    2. “Captain”
      I do not and have never spouted hate towards Maori, but I do have a great deal of dislike and distrust of any government policy that creates, or advocates for, differing levels of civic participation based on race. Nor do I want NZ to return to a tribally based society.
      Perhaps instead of thinking of “pakeha” and the “pale people”, or “Maori” we (all the citizens of this country) were all referred to as New Zealanders everyone would ultimately benefit. Now there’s a pleasant thought.

      1. You have said exactly what I was going to say Irene. I’m totally fed up with ‘maori’ this and ‘maori’ that. It’s time we stopped thinking of race when we discuss these matters. What Captain has said is such total rubbish it’s hardly worth replying to. There will be many people who own land and homes who have a percentage of maori blood as well as other blood.

        We have to start thinking of ourselves as New Zealanders, as Irene has said and leave race out of the convesation. It’s got nothing to do with anything except in the minds of those who continue to live in the past or have to find a reason for their own ineptitude.

  9. Captain said
    June 14, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Seems to be a lot of hate being spouted here against the Maori’s who now only own around 2% of all the land while the immigrant colonialist Pakeha now own the other 98% along with all the minerals and other vast resources whereupon Maori are not able to own anything below about half a meter.

    Trina comment: I need to check but I am pretty sure ALL land owners do not own anything below half a meter. From my understanding, anything below half a meter is classed as Crown owned – which means – if the Crown explored your land and discovered oil and then sold it, the entire country benefits from it.

    Not fair on the land owner in my opinion, but it is the way the system is.

    Captain said: As far as I am aware they also cannot obtain mainstream funding with multiple owned land unlike the Pakeha can with General Land. Thus it is obvious these legalistic imaginary ”risk” of loan default banker imposed impediments would be a powerful obstacle towards gaining mainstream funding commonly available to the pale people for housing even though the houses would be built on their lands.

    Trina comment: I have a research paper which I have downloaded as a PDF and, for some unknown reason, it has not downloaded the title page that would give the title, date of publication and name of the writer. However the following is a quote from this paper:

    “Borrowing money secured over Maori land is a very emotive topic. Many Maori leaders believe that government legislation has led to limitations in securing finance for development. From a strict legal viewpoint this is not correct. The limitation to finance is based more on cultural issues and the impact this has on the value and saleability of land. This limitation can be reduced or eliminated by providing evidence of superior management abilities and a secure cashflow.”

    Captain said: One curious fact Mr Ansel has not answered is the issue of continually rising rates levied against Maori multiple owned lands for which it is very very difficult to obtain funding to develop commercial enterprises upon and even if such is a venture should succeed the valuation of the property climbs accordingly each year along with a subsequent rise in rates.

    I don’t think one has to be a rocket scientist to work out that it would not take long for the rates to become rather unmanageable.

    Trina comment: ALL NZ land owners are struggling with the same problem of high rates being levied against them.

    Rates on Maori land that is covered in native tree’s and considered non-productive can be negotiated for reduction – all negotiations paid for by the tax payer. I do not know if this is the same for non-Iwi.

      1. FOUND IT!

        Development of Maori land
        Author: McLean, David
        Date: 2002
        Publisher: Lincoln University. Faculty of Commerce. Kellogg Rural Leaders Programme.
        Series/Report no.: Kellogg Rural Leaders Programme report

  10. What a bunch of nasty spiteful people who dont even know the truth history of our country or the many priviliges they recieved , land parcel after the war only for whites , social benefits only for whites and the best from the state coffers only for whites .

    1. Do you not know of the billions of dollars that have been paid out for maori only initiatives, Michelle? It is ongoing, has been for as long as I can remember and my mother before me, and increases by the year. All for people of maori descent.

      There is something wrong if people of maori descent are still in the negative statistics and actually proves that money will never ever solve this problem. There is a distinct lack of aspiration, hard work and education amongst this group and all the tools are there for anyone to take advantage of them.

      Many people of maori descent are decent worthwhile citizens and get by on their own initiatives, so please don’t tell me that those in the negative statistics need special help. They just need to get off their butts, stop holding their hands out forever, stop blaming other people, and work hard at getting a decent education first and foremost. Education, hard work and aspiration are the keys to a decent life.

      1. You need to do your homework Helen more money and privileges have been given to PAKEHA this is why they own most of our country look at the legisaltion this country was founded on , the native land act , the public works act to name a few who and how all the land was taken Helen. As for your mother well she didnt teach you very well cause you know nothing and you are epousing the same old worn out racist rubbish. You can always go back to your mother land and be a peasant and serf isnt that were most of yous came from.

      2. Michelle, you really do have your head in the sand. The people who are reasonably well off in this country have done so by their own hard work and efforts. This also applies to many of maori descent who have done the same. Those who are in the negative statistics in all too many cases, lack aspiration, work ethic and, above all, education. These are the keys to everything.

        I repeat again, that in every facet of our lives there is special funding for people of maori descent. Every day we hear of yet more millions and billions being earmarked for maori initiatives. If you haven’t heard of them, then you need to open your eyes and ears. Having said that, all too many of maori descent still feature in the negative statistics, so obviously money doesn’t help matters at all. The stupid officials who are responsible for all of this outpouring of money haven’t yet realised that money won’t solve the problems. Only education, hard work and aspiration will make a difference. That great Statesman, Sir Apirana Ngata said ‘welfare will be the downfall of my people’. He was so right – it is.

        You should go to the 1Law4All site (Death of Democracy) and learn of all the examples of special funding and lowering of the bar for people of Maori descent in the medical and education sectors alone. I personally witnessed special funding and treatment for those of maori descent as I grew up. It wasn’t only told to me – I saw it – and it wasn’t available for me. I had to work hard for myself without any of this special assistance.

      1. mICHELLE,

        Perhaps it is you who needs to do some more homework.
        Below is a quote from Judge Anthony Willy who has written a well researched article on Sovereignty and the Treaty. It would be a good place to start.

        “All of the important promises contained in the Treaty have been
        honoured. Maori land ownership was preserved to the original owners, and they were protected by the Crown’s assertion of the right of pre-emption, British citizenship was conferred on all Maori, Maori have complete political equality (indeed unequal if one considers the Maori seats). Maori have completely equal access to educational opportunities and health care. They share in the benefits of the infrastructure introduced by the Europeans. They have equality before the law and have full access to the courts which from the earliest time they have exercised and continue to do so generally with much profit. Notwithstanding these enviable
        benefits (denied to many of the worlds citizens) Maori enjoy in addition the court sanctioned benefit of having the spirit of the Treaty live on as it is embodied in the instructions to Hobson and the terms of the Treaty itself, and the Treaty of Waitangi
        Act, leaving it to the governments of the day to decide what are and what are not Treaty breaches. It is difficult to see how more comprehensively this transaction could have been honoured, or more completely it can be said that we are one

        You can view the whole paper here-

  11. Michelle is a perfect example of the kind of nasty, ignorant, stupid people we have in our country. Heads full of racist nonsense spread so carefully and successfully among the populace and believed so eagerly by them.
    It’s going to be a very long road back from here.

  12. In the news this morning our minister of ‘culture’ Mr Findlayson – who of course also doubles as Father Christmas for Maori, has announced that our national museum Te Papa (translation ‘Their Place’) will build and open a ‘branch’ in Auckland. It will be (quote) “Based in South Auckland and have a strong Maori and Pacific Island flavour”. What a surprise.

  13. Finlayson gives me the heebies. He’s a ridiculous excuse for a politician but is also very dangerous to the wellbeing of our country. I’m bewildered how John Key can’t see how bad he is, in every way. He should have long gone and the day he does go, will find me cheering from the rooftops.

  14. “Finlayson gives me the heebies. He’s a ridiculous excuse for a politician but is also very dangerous to the wellbeing of our country.”

    I can totally relate to what you state here Helen, last century (1990s) prior to when privacy laws were bought into the workplace I was employed at a leading consultancy firms head office in Auckland and attended a work dinner function at a restaurant on Ponsonby road I walked in a little late shucking my leathers quickly as I approached a bigger than expected group of people just about to dine, The only space left for me to sit was to the right of Finlayson, I sat, wined, dined, listened and observed with not only my work mates but with the Law firm this bloke worked for at the time.

    Decorum prevents me from stating any more than that some people of both workplaces had an intense interest in how the seating arrangement would work out.

    I did not feel comfortable and left soon after the meal and speeches were finished after listening and watching intently as at around the same time Judith (Crusher) Collins visited my workplace in the corporate world (after hours) to meet with its board of Directors at the time and to see them both in Politics together now doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence let alone after working and having discussions with some of our elite armed forces amongst others building Gas and Oil Pipelines around New Zealand in the 1980s that informed me that John Key should be bought into Politics sometime in the future (others were mentioned as well) this was before he left to work in Australia when our Country was in a financial crisis way back then even.

    P.S. If there is any space on those rooftops left when said event happens, give me a holler please as I don’t get out very much at all these days and could really do with a bit of celebratory good cheer especially when all the Political parties are shaken hard with the rise of some real Kiwi’s not held back by any moratoria restrictions or corruption that I can see N.B 1Law4All. Rock on dudes 😉

  15. Sadly this site is almost deserted now it seems.
    I turned on the TV at 1230 today to watch the ETNZ Welcome Home Parade in Akld. But as seems usual for NZ these days it was hijacked by a bunch of fat maori jabbering away in a language I do not care for. How arrogant to keep the audience listening to this rubbish but knowing full well hardly anyone understood. Turned the TV off 30 seconds later for I knew there would be endless hakas and all that make-it-up-as-you-go maori BS that many have grown to despise. Maori have contributed nothing to ETNZ. Akld ratepayers for sure had to pay for this plastic maori waffling away in what he thinks is his superior language. I was furious that ETNZ let these greedy parasitic maori hijack this parade. Then on the TV news, I saw Len Brown rubbing noses with the team. I was glad I turned it off. I have heard that a haka party accompanied ETNZ to USA and sucked up a lot of funds that should have been spent on sailing. Why am I not surprised? Maori have infiltrated every aspect of this country with their reinvented BS and through that are stealing money left, right and centre. I felt embarrassed as these parasitic bullies took over thanks to gutless spineless councils and officials who allowed it. What could have been a nice welcome home was ruined by culture bullies. Shame on maori and shame on Akld council.

    1. Oh, Derejk. I could have written exactly what you have written. I didn’t see the ‘Maori’ welcome home bit but I saw Len Brown rubbing noses withi Dean Barker on the news and was so disgusted that two non-Maori people would do this that I sent an email off to Brown telling him how revolting I found it.

      I have said earlier on another site that one thing I particularly enjoyed about the America’s Cup coverage in San Francisco was that there was absolutely no ‘Maori’ hoo-haa anywhere. It was just so refreshing and noticeable. However, I knew that once they got back to this country that would all change and so it did it seems.

      Goodness knows why ‘they’ think they have to ‘perform’ at everything that opens and shuts. They had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the America’s Cup.

      Also, surely our public figures are not going to ‘take on’ all this Maori hoo-haa themselves at every turn. It is an enormous turn-off and I seem to have become totally intolerant of it – anywhere. Some, like Len Brown, are becoming more ‘Maori’ than the part-Maori. We have got to stop it before ‘maori culture’ becomes part of general New Zealand culture. Nothing turns me off more than watching non-maori NZers performing the haka at everything. It’s an arrogant violent in-your-face stir up for war and is totally inappropriate in our society.

      As for rubbing noses, that Scandinavian politician got it absolutely right when she said she found Maori culture very distasteful and refused to rub noses. I bet more than we know, feel exactly the same. It embarrasses me that overseas dignitaries are expected to do this.

      I too miss this site, Derejk. It’s good to have a place to let off steam if nothing else.

    1. I completely agree. I too turned off the disgusting spectacle of fat, publicly funded Maoris involving themselves in an event that they can claim no part of. And I was equally enraged by the sight a few nights earlier of Maori kaumatua – there seemed to be 3 or 4 of them, plus a “powhiri” group – waddling through the carriages of the first new Auckland electric train “blessing” it by self-importantly wagging carved sticks about. Len Brown was involved in that fiasco as well. There will be no end to that sort of stuff unless politicians put a stop to it – and they won’t. My heart sinks at the realisation that we may be too far gone down the maorification path to ever come back. My stepdaughter has just started a Bachelor of Engineering degree course at Unitec, and is horrified by the high Maori content. That sort of bogus crap is going on in various ways all over our country, and it is rare that anything is said about it.

      I have not logged on to this blog for quite a while. I have very little spare time, and it seemed to be going nowhere once John Ansell bailed out. Plus there were too many people using the blog to air their own irrelevant side issues. But I am very glad to see a couple of worthy die-hards still here. The core issue must not be allowed to fade away into the usual apathy, and I for one won’t be supporting 1LAW4ALL unless they change the name to something less offensive. They are unlikely to do that, because they too have quickly entered that mode where they are certain that they know best. My hat is off to you Helen, Mike, Derejk and Ironsides. Never surrender.

      1. Thanks for that, John P. I for one will never ever give up on whatever it takes to gain equality under the law for everyone in this country even though I can honestly say that I doubt I have achieved anything over the years. At least I will know I tried which is more than can be said for all too many – sadly.

        I also worry, like you do, that we may have gone too far down the ‘Maori path’ to ever halt it or turn it around. It seems to be escalating at an ever increasing rate of late and has infiltrated every aspect of our public institutions and public lives. Seeing non-Maori rub noses is a sympton as to how far we have descended, and quite turns me off big time.

      2. John, what did your step daughter mean by high Maori content?

        Number of students or what was being taught?

        Unsure how stone age Maori lives and customs relate to engineering with today’s technology?

      3. Rob: high Maori content refers to the course content. there are no Maoris on the course. All Asians & Caucasians. But they have to listen to nonsensical stuff about respect for Maoris as engineers, and learn the convoluted processes of getting Maori consent for any new work. Also the Maori names for things and places. I think there may be more, but you get the picture. It is reminiscent of courses that sprung up in the 1980’s with names like “feminist Geography”.

      4. I liked your last sentence Johnp because then hopefully this maori nonsense is just a passing phase and I will cling to that.

      5. Helen, sadly the absurd likes of “feminist geography” are still with us, and are almost mainstream. If you Google “feminist geography Waikato” for example, you may be surprised – or shocked – at how many hits you get. People are being paid good money to write this nonsense, and there are PhD courses in it. And that is what deeply worries me about the Maorification issue – it is becoming ingrained, and will soon be so mainstream that we won’t be able to stop it. Anyone who tries are – and will be – side-lined as racists, rednecks, reactionary dinosaurs etc. Make no mistake – this is a fight to the death, and we are not winning it. Not enough people even care.

      6. Sadly I think you are right Johnp. Just today on The Nation, I noticed that Rachel is now saying Kia Ora when welcoming Colin James who has said it for some time now. Non-Maori are rubbing noses and so it goes on. I really fear it might be too late to stop it as it seems to be escalating. Non-Maori are becoming more Maori than those of Maori descent.

        I will just have to be labelled racist, redneck or whatever but I will continue to fight it loudly on all fronts. I wrote to The Nation telling them how ridiculous it is that Rachel who is non-Maori is now making greetings in Maori.

        This country is going to the dogs.

      7. No doubt in my mind that you are completely right, Helen. The only positive is that 80% plus think pretty much the same way. Unfortunately, 90% of those 80% are too apathetic to do anything about it, and the voices of the radicals are the only ones heard most of the time.

      8. That has us fuming John What a load of sh#t! And they’ll have to listen and take note in order to pass finals of course.

        There’s some flaming idiots in the Beehive and elsewhere that they can’t see what they’re doing . . . or they don’t care ‘cos I’m alright’ or they’ve been brainwashed too and think they know more than grassroots people and have to ‘govern NZ on our behalf’ without listening to us as ‘they know better’.

        Man I wish we could ‘let it rip’, say what we think plainly speaking and that there was investigative journalism in mainstream media.

        (yeah, unsure what the 1law4all website DOESN’T DO that there’s not the ‘conversation’ there that there is here. We left this site as it’s of less political relevance now albeit as people hv said, it’s a good place to vent and check things out.)

  16. What does one call six activists in a car crash?

    A) a blardy good start

    B) Car pie

    C) all the above and possibly more?

  17. So the North & South Islands are to have unwieldy Maori names added to them. What a surprise, in the addled Maori-centric, PC country we have become.

      1. It seems that the concept of “customary use” applies only when that use is by Maori. The fact that our main Islands have been called North & South for 200 years therefore carries no weight at all. Wonder why Stewart Island has not been mentioned – maybe Maoris had not discovered it pre-European ?

  18. Yes John, it seems you may be right.
    But to be fair, then all maori place names such as Rotorua, Tauranga, Whangarei etc should get alternative English names. Yeah right!

    My friend has just been on a teaching seminar. She is reeling from the maori takeover of our education system. She does not want to be named for fear of losing her job ( yes, that is what this country has come to….it reminds me of Pol Pot and all those other evil regimes that have infiltrated society, and how anyone game enough to say the obvious “disappears” over night). Half the seminar was taken up listening to culture bullies jabbering away in maori ( hardly anyone could understand it, but on and on and on it went relentlessly) and listening to BS about how advanced maori culture was. My friend felt sick not being able to say anything but had to sit there nodding her head for fear someone would notice she was not in awe of this ‘great culture’.

    As for 1law4all, well I get the odd e.mail but I’m thinking they should be doing a lot more. A hell of a lot more. Anyone heard anything positive?

    Finlayson has banked on kiwi apathy and nailed it. Half the people I speak to actually think that slavery of maori by Europeans was how it was, and the maori had to fight to be free !!! Yes, how can you tell an idiot their idea of history is soooooooooooooooooo wrong?! Ask them to read a book and I know I may as well ask them to run a sub 2 hour marathon. I fear for this country like never before because it looks like there is no way back. The mafia have taken over here.

  19. According to the latest census result there is 4242048 people living in NZ .
    420990 have enrolled as Maori.
    That is less then 10 % ( 9.92)
    So where is the 15 % and rising Maori talk about ?
    Or am I missing something ?

    1. In reality – almost every “Maori” is part-Maori – most under 50%. Many prefer to be on the General roll, and many are too apathetic to bother either way. The racist Maori Party gets around 1.5% of the vote in general elections. But the overriding point is that “Maori issues” receive a huge amount of govt. funding in proportion to their numbers.

    2. Yea, you are missing something HW as what happens is this; if you’re on the census as having any amount of Maori ancestry at all, no matter how far back, and even if you choose NOT to identify yourself as a Maori, your name is added to Maori numbers and thus used to justify part-Maori spending by our politicians (across board but espec. our current lot of Shonkey’s minions).

    3. Well, even if u are 99% European the whinging part Maori activists will still count you as Maori as they’re becoming desperate to justify their existence.
      Even if you consider yourself non-Maori ‘they’ are deliberately choosing to falsify the census statistics to justify that there’s actually a significant Maori population . . . Maori ancestry is getting watered down as we speak.

      The fact is, you can’t even trust the census it seems …

      1. Well, we have the link to the Census Scam posting on NZCPR that explains it all HW but the link won’t open. I’ve asked Muriel to find it and will get back when she replies.
        From memory on that posting it said the real Maori population (at that time)was around 5-6% (i.e. those who identified themselves as Maori) whereas the official rate was the inflated numbers when those with any Maori ancestry were added in even though they DIDN’T identify themselves as Maori… 14-16%

        The other thing we’ve noticed that some stats now include Maori-Pacific Islanders together (Pacifica) EG: Pharmac’s criteria for priority resources gives both populations priority over non-Maori
        Pharmac has been asked to give a greater weight to the TOW Principles when they make their decisions – by submitters to their recent community consultation process and by Shonkey’s lot . . .

      2. I believe it used to be the case that anyone with less than 25% Maori blood couldn’t identify themselves as ‘Maori’. However I’m sure that anyone with even a strand can now identify themselves as such.

        I can’t for the life of me see how anyone with 25% or less can possibly identify as being ‘Maori’ and this blood quantum should be reinstated so that we can have some meaningful statistics. At the moment they aren’t worth the paper they are written on with all the manipulation that goes on.

        My guess is that we would be lucky to have 5% ‘Maori’ if the stats were done properly. However, that just wouldn’t do, would it!!??

      3. Helen; heard on the radio that Tipene Reagan has 16% Maori ancestry . . .

        I suspect that if you have obvious Maori characteristics you’re probably more likely to identify as a Maori.

        I think part Maori often are treated differently to non-Maori but there’s reasons for that and we should be addressing those reasons not creating further divisions with blindfolds on, ear plugs in, a pen and a cheque book.

  20. For whoever might still be following this blog; this article on the rise of the Conservative Party is a good summary. I have always thought that the Conservatives are the closest established party to Treatygate’s objectives, and always thought that encouraging them to stiffen up their opposition to the Treaty industry is a much better strategy than forming a new party from scratch. That especially applies to the 1LAW4ALL party, which from the start handicapped itself with a ludicrous name. That has meant that at they will merely cannibalise votes from parties with similar objectives. They would do well to look at a merger or support agreement with the Conservatives. Not National, because their betrayal of core values is the reason we needed this site in the first place.

  21. That very encouraging John P. It gives me some hope. At the moment the vote is going to be split and we won’t achieve anything. However, I wouldn’t want Colin Craig to go into coalition with Shonkey. I would prefer him to sit on the cross benches and give support (or not) issue by issue but I don’t think that will happen as I believe Colin Craig feels he will achieve more in coalition.

    John Key has said recently that National supporters wouldn’t have to worry about the Conservatives’ policies because they would only entail a conscience vote. Well, we have seen what he means by a ‘conscience vote’ in the past. Vote his way or not at all. None of the MP’s are allowed to vote according to their own conscience. If they did, they know they would be out on their ear in double quick time or would be chastised and know any promotion would be out of their reach.

    1. Fair comment Helen, but Key would not be able to manipulate the conscience votes of a coalition partner. It is my hope that the Conservatives will give him enough of a fright to realise the high electoral cost he may pay for ignoring the majority wishes on so many issues.

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