Sunday Star-Times, Treatygate

SS-T poll: 70% No to Maori seats, 56% No to Treaty Principles

More poll results for our expanding collection.

According to last week’s Sunday Star-Times survey on Constitutional matters, 70% of 3800 readers want to ditch the Maori seats, while 25.6% want to keep them…

SS-T poll - 70% No Maori Seats

And 56.3% don’t want the Treaty principles in any written constitution, while 34.4% do…

SS-T poll - 56% No to Waitangi Principles in ConstitutionIn another question, 87.8% of readers want to see any written constitution ratified by referendum.


95 thoughts on “SS-T poll: 70% No to Maori seats, 56% No to Treaty Principles

  1. I think the 56.3% figure for “No Treaty in the Constitution” would be much higher if the NZ public really understood what incorporating the “principles” meant and the ramifications of doing so…

    1. Yeah and I think the 70% figure would be a lot lower if the NZ public really understood what cancelling the seats would mean.

      Three hints:
      – FLQ
      – Meibion Glyndŵr
      – Óglaigh na hÉireann

      1. I think you are saying that there could be guerilla type groups formed in NZ, and we could have violence??

      2. Yes Roger and Bruce, except of course that there is no ‘could’ about it.

        Tame Iti and co. were well advanced with their guerrilla group when the police had the temerity to catch them. Only a complicit Solicitor General saved them from a much longer stretch in prison.

    2. my thoughts exactly

      in this poll, people believe they are voting on if the treaty should be kept as it is written, not on the fabricated ‘principles of the treaty’

    3. The Principles of the Treaty are really the Treaty of Wellington – Geoffrey Palmer’s misty-eyed idea of what he would have liked the Treaty of Waitangi to have said.

      It is a work of imagination. Some people like what he has imagined and are happy to set aside the inconvenient fact that it was not born of the Treaty of Waitangi.

      Others see through the deception.

      I agree that when most know what we know, they will reject it by more than 56% to 34%.

    4. Aaron Gilmore is a typical nobody list MP who made some silly remarks. A good old fashioned rollocking from the PM and letters of apology to the staff concerned would have sufficed. Notice how the media went into a feeding frenzy on this soft target who is unable to fight back? If that same media applied as much effort into the real issue of millions upon millions of dollars syphoned off hard working kiwis for anything pertaining to part maori interests, any ToW poll result would be considerably different.

      1. Yes – stupid remarks and behaviour will guarantee media headlines for days and a demand to resign.
        Corruption and fraud for years will get you fawning media attention and a knighthood.

  2. The challenge is to make people aware of the stark difference between Te Tiriti and the Palmer/Prebble democracy destroying version. When people understand they have been duped it will not be pretty.

  3. I think that ‘Angry Tory’ means that we are being blackmailed into retaining the Maori seats under threat of violence – worse that he/she approves of this. The Maori seats are undemocratic, reason enough to abolish them and when we do it, end the education propaganda that has enabled them to exist largely without criticism.

    1. I like the bit in the NZCPR story that suggests the Dutch should have more rights due to Tasman’s discovery. Don’t know about all you other whities but with my surname this sure sounds good to me…….

      1. Go for it Mike!! At least you would share and integrate and wouldn’t want everything for yourself.

      2. Reminds me of the old Lone Ranger joke……..The lone ranger and Tonto have spent all day trying to outrun the chasing Apaches. However as the afternoon draws to a close The Lone Ranger realises Silver is too exhausted to go any further and that they are surrounded.
        Sadly he turns to his faithful companion: ” Looks like we are done for this time Tonto”
        Tonto smiles. “What you mean ‘we’, White man?”

      3. Or does the good old US of A own the Moon because they were the first there and have their flag on it?

  4. I firmly believe that many in this country have no idea what is meant by ‘the Principles of the Treaty’. They believe they were created by the Treaty and do not realise that they are a fiction created by Geoffery Palmer as recently as 1986. We hear ‘Principles of the Treaty’ so often that people actually believe they are real. There is so much ignorance out there and when people start to realise how they have been duped big time, they certainly won’t be happy chappies, to put it mildly.

    I also believe there would also be many people of Maori descent who would have voted for the Maori seats to go. After all many of them are on the general roll. If they agreed with the Maori seats, surely they would be on the Maori roll.

    Today, they are skewing the system. There are so many people of Maori descent in Parliament now as well as two Maori Parties so why on earth do they need this extra representation?

  5. I don’t believe then figures. I believe more than 70% would want to ditch maori seats and a damn site more than 56% wouldn’t want anything to do with the treay in any constitiution.
    Reading the book ‘Twisting the Treaty’ is making me so angry at Finlayson and Key. I just can’t believe how Key can deceive the public the way he does; what are his reasons? Finlayson is the most horrible little toad, one only has to take one look at him to work him out, his arrogance is astounding.
    The whole country is being tricked by these quislings who are running it on behalf of separatist maori elite.
    Key is a very clever man worth millions. I simply can’t see that he can’t see it. My only rationale is that he’s getting something from it himself, maybe tens of millions secretly filtered away somewhere off shores, as long as it’s more than 22.22 Kms from NZ shores it should be OK!!

    1. Marvin, my take on it (for what it’s worth) is that Key is doing the bidding of the UN. A high position within that corrupt group would be on his ‘bucket list’ (before he kicks the bucket if someone doesn’t know what I mean) for sure. He obviously doesn’t give a damn about this country – it’s all about him and his aspirations. Let’s hope a spanner gets into the works and spoils his game!!

      Remember, the first thing he did when he came to power in 2008 was to bring back Knighthoods. That would be another ‘bucket list’ item in my view. He’s a cunning, crafty self-interested bigot, not to mention a traitor to his country. If only that was still a crime!!

    2. Re the figures….they could be right as it was only Sunday Star Times readers polled…not a cross populus of NZ.

    3. I think it’s entirely likely that our public ‘servants’ and media owners are being bribed by iwi.

      I have no evidence, but dishonesty is embedded in tribal tradition. Anything that benefits the tribe, goes.

      1. That’s what I’ve been telling Kiwis for years. There’s no other way they’d keep their journalists away from the truth of NZ. Money is changing hands at the very top level of our media and political circles.

  6. FYI
    FLQ was a quebec separatist marxist paramilitary group,
    Meibion Glyndŵr was a welsh terrorist group
    Óglaigh na hÉireann was a splinter group of the IRA

  7. I find it all so depressing that maori are so over represented in all government decisions while the rest of us are ignored, even by the very bias media. This country is not a democracy anymore and is as corrupted as a country can get. Maori make up 14% of the population but have ‘all’ the say in what happens in this godforsaken place.
    Thankyou John Key for selling us out, selling out the people who voted for you to end this privilege and money making rackets of maori elites. You are truly a liar and a fake along with your ‘boss’ and controler Finlayson and his separatist mates.
    The country will one day wake up and see you for what you are, but then it will be far too late to do anything about it. This country is on the road to ruin and it’s all thanks to two men, John Key and Chris Finlayson, who are in the pockets of a small but very very wealthy group of maori who got very rich off the backs of the tax payers of New Zealand and their unconscionable collective apathy.
    Thankyou also to the media who must be the most bias, weakest and limp wristed media in the world. You also have failed in your duty to tell us all (the tax paying public of this country) what’s really going on in this country.
    I know my three children have no future in NZ. They are white and and second class in the country that ‘their’ ancestors built from scratch and made this country rich. Now all them riches are being surreptitiously given away by the two treacherous aforementioned cockroaches to greedy, money hungry for nothing parasitic separatist maori who’ll forever get fat off the backs of the second class tax payers.
    What is it that Key is afraid of, is it maori protesting in the streets, maori taking to arms, doing the haka outside parliament? We can handle any of this! What we can’t and refuse to handle is him giving billions of dollars, plus the exclusive rights and ownership to our land and seas to a watered down pack of light brown gangsters who call themselves maori.
    Mr Key you are a gutless wonder and your stupid smile doesn’t fool me and thousands of others who now detest and loath your very existance. You’re a fake, a fraud, a clown, and above all, a coward of the highest possible degree.

    1. Hear, hear, Marvin. An absolute ditto from me. I could even add some more very strong superlatives, but I’m struggling to keep my cool. I’m sure you can imagine them though.

    2. “the tax payers of New Zealand and their unconscionable collective apathy.”…. right there is the big problem.

      1. You’r right, my father always said that the kiwi term she’ll be right mate would be the end of us all, another thing is, most kiwi don’t know whats going on, they are shielded from facts and non pc news by government agencies, left wing news papers and lying politicians, when you explain to the average kiwi that they and especially there children are going to get(dorked) big time they will come out fighting.

    3. Crazy horse NSW…I agree… The lack of protest is astounding.
      You only need watch the TV news once to know that its not the news at all. Its an emotional fix for its addicts but in terms of factual news, its not worth watching…so wouldnt you go looking elsewhere? We have the iNet now.

      Is it because NZers are used to having the wool pulled over their eyes? Are we really this apathetic and benign?
      All I hear is “they’ll sort it out”…yeah right!…When they finally figure out what has happened they will scream “something should have been done”….but it will be too late. Meantime theres a “who will make the team” rugby story or a Kardashian reality show far more enticing….
      Im sure that M & Mrs Average think its someone else’s problem, and expect the govt to fix it….”peace in our time”

      1. Yes, Bruce, it’s totally beyond comprehension. We even have some of our friends who voice concern but do nothing. They say ‘but there is nothing we can do’. I immediately answer ‘Oh, yes you can’ and tell them exactly what but for some inexplicable reason, they just don’t want to know. I call it ‘burying their heads in the sand’. Perhaps it’s in the too hard basket and they hope someone else will do what’s necessary.

        However, I know that one day they will wake up when it is too late and wonder how it all happened. I’m convinced they really do not really appreciate the seriousness of the situation. To me, it seems to be escalating with some new racist happening every day.

        They reckon there will be anarchy in the streets if we take the gravy train away from the grievers, but I’m living in hope that it will be the other way round when we all FINALLY rise up and protest. We have the numbers!!

      2. I think that the most likely scenario is that the great majority of the population will never really understand what happened.

        My prediction (unless we can manage to derail the train):

        Resources will continue to be stripped and the taxpayer raped until the tax take plunges as the productive sector staggers to a halt under the load and services for the average Joe dry up as a result.

        The only people doing OK by then will be tribal Maori and the very rich, many of whom will have formed strategic alliances with them. At this stage the population will be told that it is capitalism that has failed and that the state will be assuming greater powers as a result – ‘To look after the vulnerable and those who will otherwise fall through the cracks and to maintain order’.

        The government in tandem with tribal Maori will assume control of all facets of life for the average citizen (but not for tribal Maori themselves due to their exclusive rights and ownership of vast resources). We will be told it is ‘for our own good’, otherwise ‘chaos would reign’ and attempting to allow the free market back to operate would simply ‘add further to the problems as the capitalists would take further advantage of the vulnerable’.

        At this point the socialists would have achieved the complete victory they have worked towards for over half a century. Most people would not have a clue what actually happened and would likely champion socialism as the saviour and only way forward.

  8. Helen I live in Queensland half of the time now because I became exasperated with talking to people who agreed all this brown washing was OTT….it was “shocking, dreadful, terrible” and yet they would glaze over when I said they needed to become involved.
    They would get way more animated about the religeon of “Rugby”.\ than the demise of NZ.
    I have no objection to following a sport but its so dominating that its almost like a distraction that “big sister” is using….Opiates for the masses perhaps.
    Thats just my thinking though
    Meanwhile NZ goes further down the gurgler.

    1. I can understand you leaving the country, Bruce. I often feel like doing the same myself but I don’t really fancy Oz even though I have children living there. Visits are enough for me. I’m opting to stay and fight. I must be mad!!

      I’ve been fighting since 1995 and what’s changed?! It’s got worse and ever more quickly ‘worse’ (awful grammar – sorry) under Key and his cohorts. It’s rather like a runaway train. When the crash comes, goodness knows what to expect. I hope it’s soon so as to wake the Sheeple up. I really could shake them until their heads rattle. I get so frustrated with their attitude.

      1. “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it”.

        Albert Einstein

  9. Hey I sent this comment below why I think Keys/Finlayson and other traitors are hell bent on NZ’s destruction but it was “stopped” by the moderator because it has two internet links.
    I’m resending it now in two parts so it should go through as it answers your questions Mike, Marvin, Helen to name a few bloggers.

    Why is the Treaty being turned upside down with our pre-Maori history being so aggressively covered up and rewritten???

    Can our politicians really be so stupid???

    Page 147 on Twisting the Treaty that explains it all!!!! (See Communist part-Maori self-determination Policy 1935).

    This communist party plan outlines how to destroy democratic capitalism by using minority races. Remember that Geoffrey Palmer who has much to do with promoting the false treaty lies is also a Labour Party Socialist.

    There’s also a link (below) which explains the UN Agenda 21 plan which is an unbelievable fact. In a nutshell, its’ mission is to force a global socialist government and give trees and animals equal rights to humans.

    Its only barrier to success is European western capitalist democracies. Agenda 21 sees European middle-class people as the biggest threat to the environment. They are doing their best to make western democratic countries collapse economically.

    The ‘Man-made’ global warming debacle was Agenda 21 propaganda to scare the world into global government which they almost succeeded in achieving before the lid was blown off the ‘false science’ not unlike the ‘false Treaty of Waitangi’ claims.

  10. Cont’d: Progressive Ideology is a way of thinking that is rapidly growing like cancer amongst our political and bureaucratic elite.

    This thinking vilifies white European, wishing to ‘dumb down’ and side-line them on one hand whilst on the other hand to raise up minority indigenous races to a superior height. (Thanks for the link Tamati).

    It sounds insane we know but what’s happening in this country is also insane until you learn about Agenda 21 which is making a global national park for the rich under guise of ‘Saving the Planet’.

    This plan is a nightmare for the majority of the world population and MUST be fought tooth and nail.

    Their method of achieving this goal is exactly what’s happening in NZ; the massive transfer of wealth and power to Corporate Iwi, a self-interested part-Maori minority.
    Right now behind our backs they are trying to destroy our democracy and force non-Maori into second-class citizens.

    So, for all our sakes . . . listen to this U Tube link to Agenda 21 and get wised up.

    Let me know what you think; I think it’s happening now and been happening for a long time!!!

    1. Rob, thanks for those links, i have watched them and it will make it a lot easier to explain to the head in the sand crowd whats going on, screaming and waving my arms seems to frighten some people.

    2. (PART) maori is a powerful statement, in all my comments in SunLive, and Herald i always am careful to make that point (part) maori, we are only dealing with people who want money for nothing housing for free, and the thing i have noticed ,not a negative reply from anyone, finally got something that even (part) maori agree on.

      1. Completely watered down, diluted,whitened and mostly 1 part in 32 and yet they still call themselves maori when 31 parts of 32 is white or other non maori. Makes me want to vomit blood!!

  11. I hear people in my workplace saying “what a fantastic job John Key is doing for this country”. I try to explain what he’s really doing, but it falls in deaf ears as they simply won’t have a bar of it.
    I work with lots of Brits and south Africans, and we are singing from the same hyme book when it comes to what we say on this site. Maybe it’s because we’re new coming into the country and can see it straight away, I don’t know.
    The people who try to shut me down as some radical right wing fascist are almost entirely Kiwis. There’s plenty…., in fact thousands of Kiwis that are cut from the same cloth as us, but very few will speak up. I’ve heard on many occasions that “It’s what we’re brought up with and that’s the way it is” and like I’ve said on this site before, I’ve copped many a time the ” If you don’t like it then go back home to England”.
    Just how we break these barriers down I don’t know. Ignorance, familiarity, laziness, stupidity, fear, and cravenous are some of the words I can conjure up to maybe explain what it is that holds everyday, hard working, down to earth, mostly white Kiwi males from standing up and shouting “ENOUGH”!
    Maybe I’m too sensitive to the problems of the world, as I was back home with mass immigration of non skilled labour, international criminals and war criminals, terrorists and their supporters, and people who openly hated Britain and the west flooding into my country. Lack of freedom of speech of us who opposed it, and the branding of anyone who did dare to speak were ruined by the Blair government, the progressive press and their supporters.
    That’s why I left my home country for New Zealand, that’s why most of us left if the truth be told.
    Is NZ much the same as back home? I have to say yes, but on a much smaller scale. We haven’t got the mass immigration due to our (thankfully) geographical location; but the politician is the same old born liar who’ll say anything to stay in power.
    Back home we did have opposing media and politicians and good old and fair and eqaul debates on our TV screens and radio. Sadly when NZ have a TV debate one can gurantee it will be dominated by separatist maori and their white political puppets or their supporters, and maybe one person out of all 6 who will near represent 85% of the population of this country; and that person will always loose and ridiculed with no real answers to the questions posed. And no one sees it! Is it only me who sees that it’s always a jack up that when the TV show is supposed to be impartial or non partisan, but they do this everytime? The polar opposite of the pro rata population of this country is true when a debate is happening.
    No investigative journalists are investigating anything to do with treaty deals, Finlayson, his past with Ngai Tahu, dodgy dealing, vast amounts of money changing hands, the false treaty, the Littlewoods treaty. It seems anything to do with separatist maori elitists is off limits completely.
    Is it fear; has money changed hands to shut down the media; is it politcal pressure put on the press; well what; what the f..k is going on in this country that the people who should be asking the questions won’t do it?
    I despair, I really do!
    Good night and Godbless to all right thinking people.

    1. Totally agree Marvin. The inquisitive mind has been destroyed in this country. Easier to open ones mouth and let some BS liar spoon feed us than actually think for oneself. And then occasionally on the TV news, it seems Key ( mother should have named him ‘Don’) is standing his ground against the maori, re the asset sales and these dummies catch a glimpse of Key saying no to maori. Key is a traitor and has his own agenda to look after number 1.

    2. Correct Marvin…I cant see that change will happen through normal channels because the normal channels are all fixed as you rightly point out…eg the submissions process….its all smoke and mirrors to convince the mindless herd that its democratic.
      How can it be democratic, given the makeup of the Constitutional Revue Panel? They’re really going to listen to opposing views…. aren’t they?
      I dont advocate violence and I don’t think we’ll need it, just our numbers would be enough but the govt needs to know we are angry and we are determined that it stops.
      If or when the 80% get off their butts and say “Enough” it will stop but the grievance industry proponents and collaborators are clever and organised and are masters at puppeteering and deception.
      All this hasnt happenend by chance, no way, it was orchestrated but it can only continue with the capitulation and compliance of the people.

      I think John Key has done some good things for NZ but on this issue he is way off the mark and it defies logic. He is not stupid and in his position, he must know more than we do, so therefore there is another bigger, unseen reason why this poisonous agenda marches on.
      It could be the UN or threats of violence from radical maori…or a combination of things.
      What ever the cause though, the antidote is the same and is what we need to focus on….ie waking up rank and file “Kiwis” to the plot, to the point of protest….thats the hard part.

      1. I fail to see the point of blaming John Key for the problems we are having-all political parties have been guilty of promoting separtism-the Labour Party not one wit less than National and a Labour/Green government would be even worse! Best to focus on alerting peolple rather than blaming the current or any past government. We need to reverse the current trends not to try to blame people. Why would an alleged socialist party like Labour seek to promote inequality the way they did and will in the future?

    3. Roger thats right…JK is a recent arrival on the scene, but this has been on the go for 30 years or so.
      JK is not the driver, but there’s something strong enough to make nearly all political parties comply.
      The Nats deals with the Maori Party have accelerated it.

      And yes… we need to focus on a fix rather than the cause.

      1. Bruce, what’s “strong enough to make nearly all political parties comply” is Agenda 21 put forward by the UN . . . I firmly believe this.

        The link below is worth listening to despite being lengthy as it sets all that’s happening crystal clear.

      2. Bruce- I have never been able to quite figure it out. When I speak to my local (National) MP he is obviously uncomfortable on the subject but avoids it as fast as he can. He was unaware that the Minister could grant an area under the Seabed and Foreshore Act and thought that an iwi had to go to court. He found out the truth but still couldn’t seem to see how wrong it was and just evades the subject. I would suggest that many MPs of all sides are like this. As an ex-teacher I can say that the education system has a lot to answer for in this regard. When they speak of ‘education’; on the subject they really mean propaganda.

      3. Roger… Ive never been able to accurately pinpoint it either…it defies logic.
        We can see the smoke, but no fire. That can only be because the real agenda is kept from us.
        I’m generally not a conspiracy theorist, but how can there not have been conspiracy here.

        And you are again dead right re “Education”.

        “What you would have in society you must first introduce in schools” …one of Karl Marx’s disciples said that.

        I had a great Social Studies teacher in the 4th form, who taught us about totalitarianism and propaganda….we learned about Stalin, Marx, Hitler, and other despots, and examined their methods.
        We disected news reports, both local and foreign and we learned to be discerning. …I bet theres none of that now…just a line to follow.
        Meanwhile mp3 players pump non human ‘music’ into feeble minds….with exeptions of course.

      4. Many politicians today are weak/pathetic and just follow the Party Line so that they can keep their lucrative salaries and future pensions. They weigh it up – admit to the people exactly what is going on or shut up and get paid – not to mention possible promotions. It stinks to high heaven and is corrupt!! They are letting their constituents down big time.

        We don’t have a democracy in this country, but then, we know that.

  12. I agree that we have to look at this as part of a global agenda. You can note parallels when you delve into truths such as you have provided Rob. I visited a South African friend living down in Paeroa last weekend and after reading and discussing some of the situation in that country, and although it is ‘further down the track’ compared to NZ, the degeneration, violence and increasing corrupt domination ceded to the blacks (generalization) after apartheid paints a chillingly similar pattern to what is happening here.
    However, it seems that in life things have to ‘play out’ to some extent and you can see that in SA this process of ineptness and destruction has reached a really low level, but in doing so they are ‘hanging themselves’ and revealing how cries for equality have been a sham. This is happening here but we haven’t quite got to the obvious stage where ‘Maori’ (I call them pseudo Maori) are only ‘grievers’, don’t, can’t and never had the knowhow or were able to contribute to building a better life for themselves or families -without or with money to do so. Many of us, both New Zealanders of Maori and non Maori descent still quietly know this and are getting to the stage where they will openly back ‘Together New Zealand’ – if the country doesn’t fall into chaos in the meantime.
    I have heard that someone (will get his name) has been asked to arrange for 5 of the Northland Iwi to come together to decide how they are going to spend their new settlement money. It will become obvious before too long that they wont know how, get into conflict and the vacuum and money will draw in a ‘well paid’ management/advisors team etc. etc. that will put forward some ‘great ideas’ and then the same corrupted process will build up, and the children will lose out…

    In the meantime I am quietly working out a way that MPs have to democratically represent their constituents or we call for their resignation and boycott them. It has to be relatively easy for people to do this and referendums are still cumbersome. I think one way may be to a have website for each electorate/area where people can vote on each law/bill etc. something like Avaaz where the tally is being noted. It has to be a collective process from the ‘bottom up’ that cant be ignored, covered up and will force MPS to act on those polls.

  13. Oh I forgot to say the most important thing really; in the meantime, educate, educate, educate – in other words keep spreading the truth, and what you are doing John is the perfect groundwork for now. It gains in the consciousness of the people as a whole slowly but surely. And on a positive note, there are some amazing great things happening globally by different groups working to bring about changes for the better. It is part of the new era we are entering into.

  14. Educate, educate educate is a great statement.
    The problem with that statement nowadays is that maori separatists have been given carte blanche by John Key and his progressives to re-educate their twisted and revised history in our schools, and all on the New Zealand tax payer against his or her will.
    Maori children who are seen to be academically outstanding are encouraged to go into law and dig us even deeper into the treaty land/money grab for the lazy, bone idle, money grabbing, parasites who control our elected government.
    Until the majority of NZ wakes up to what we say on these boards then maori separatists will always have the upper hand with the full and unbending support of the media and government, and then the UN.
    Being white is so unfashionable now and our world view is being attacked by progressives who blame us for all the world’s ills and seek our collective guilt in an attempt to shut us down from defending ourselves.

    I like this quote:
    The greatest gift to the elite maori separatists and the quisling, collusive government of New Zealand is the collective ignorance and apathy of the average New Zealander who pays for it.

      1. The people who make, distribute and appear in this sort of shit ought to be ashamed of themselves. They know nothing of history, but are quite happy to brainwash the young and the ignorant. At the same time they enjoy – along with other races – the benefits that a largely European culture have provided for them. They are a disgrace.

    1. Quote from Muligan, R. Politics in New Zealand. p 187
      ” The attempt to set a final limit on Treaty claims not only offended Maori aspirations but also threatened their major source of political leverage, the capacity to manipulate Pakeha guilt about the injustices of the past.”
      That political leverage is also being employed “educationally” with youth on many levels some subtle, some not.
      But, once one understands the mechanisms used as leverage then it is possible to work on reasonable solutions. I am cautiously optimistic that is beginning to occur.

      1. I agree! One of the main problems in the future will be the whole generation of Maori who have been in various (mostly state funded) schools where their main diet is a grossly distorted version of history that features themselves as victums and where their main set of skills is kapa haka and Maori language even if they can’t read or do maths. This is building a whole huge reservoir of resentment and entitlement that will make it very difficult to make changes. This has cost the taxpayer a huge amount of money – if you doubt this take a look at the school just off SH27 north of Matamata which has been transformed from a small country school which was closed to a substantial Maori immersion school which takes pupils who must all travel by bus from a wide area. The total cost must run into millions.
        As far as I can see there is little in the way of accountabilty in what they teach and how they teach – or how qualified their teachers actaully are. So much for the criticism of charter schools!

      2. I would urge everyone to read the latest Listener article on NCEA – this shows clearly that we are paying for a system that doesn’t work and that is short changing Maori and Pacifika students and indeed all students. In some cases schools are revolving their whole programme for these students around kapa haka and the like with the result that they will have qualifications that are almost totally useless and are non-transferrable to the real world. A disaster that will unfold in coming years.

      3. Yes Roger and this train wreck will dovetail nicely with the socialist educational mantra that the failure of such students will have been due to being and having their culture ‘further oppressed and disadvantaged by the system’.

        As such there will be a push for further resources to be poured into these facilities and racist employers and society will need to be re-educated as to the cultural worth of employing such people.

        Should this not be effective then the taxpayer will be required to fund new organisations set up specifically to employ these students in their field of expertise – perhaps Kapa Haka and bone carving. Many more will be provided with teachers qualifications to continue this valuable work into the next generation.

  15. What great posts and I totally agree with them. I can understand your frustration Marvin and please take heard that many of us are NZers by several generations and can actually see what is going on. However, I’m sad to admit that I had friends to dinner last night and one in particular is in the ‘Key is great’ mode. It’s very difficult to have a ‘discussion’ with someone like this without losing a good friend.

    I’m really at a loss as to how to change this country around but will just keep on plugging on even if I’m thought by some to be a bit of a fanatic. One becomes a fanatic I suppose when others just won’t see the wood for the trees. I will never give up and quite frankly I’m disgusted with my fellow countrymen who just won’t see what is truly happening before their eyes.

    1. Hang in there Helen! I know exactly how you feel and reaction goes from outright hostility to a clear wish to avoid even debating the isues involved. Just remember that NZers have been brain washed in this area for at least 40 years. I find the same thing : that people recenly from overseas are just amazed with what has happedned to this country-especially kiwis returnin to this country.

      1. Thanks, Roger. That’s exactly how I have come to be where I am today. We came back in 1995 after nearly 7 years living in the UK and I was so shocked at what was happening (I saw it straight away!!) that I started writing to politicians – something I had never done before. I know I have said this before so forgive me for repeating myself.

        I haven’t let up and have got more and more strident and outspoken, but I have achieved absolutely nothing. However, I won’t give up, even if I eventually lose some of our friends. I just know I’m right and can’t/won’t let it go because of this.

      2. I think that you first have to be aware of the facts and educate yourself in them. e.g. privilege is based on race-i.e. who your ancestors were – how then does Tariana Turia who father was a native american indian come to be in a privileged position as a Maori? Ngati Tahu have had 4 full and final settlements so far….etc etc. Remember that most people only know what they have been told by parties who have a strong pecuniary interest in the distortion of their version of the truth that they are peddling. Then just apply logic to the subject. I know how hard it is to sit a table with people you know and avoid saying what you know to be true. The worst people in my experience are the reasonably well educated white middle class who have an absolute horror of being considered racist – and yet they are in their attitude to entrenched Maori privilege. Love to hear from others on strategy in this area.

      3. Agreed about the perspective gained from living overseas. I was living in Perth WA for 6 years and as soon as we returned we saw it. We moved there in 2004 about the time the maori party was formed, and the transformation we found on retuning was unexpected (no relatives had mentioned it) and disturbing. My very white european 4 year old told me a few months back when she came home from daycare that she was a maori…i just about had a heart attack. I have read extensively on political correctness/ cultural marxism, the current problem stems from this movement as do many other problems currently plaguing western society. The indoctrination our young kids are subjected to from the day they enter preschools makes me wonder if we are fighting a losing battle. If the current boomer and a significant chunk of the x gen are apathetic to this then what are kids that have been brainwashed through their entire generation going to be like? I think we will be fighting this until we are old and grey (if we are not already) and then we may likely still lose as a result of so called “democracy”.

  16. The best way to objectively view anything is from a neutral standpoint so those who have been away from NZ and then return, (me included) or are recent arrivals like Marvin can see it all.

    Its the “cant see the forest for the trees” syndrome.

    Ten points for speaking out Marvin…please dont stop and dont go back to England….I get called the same names but it wont affect me at all unless I let it.

    NZers are so naive and passive, its embarrasses me to be one…still theres a “footy” game on soon eh?.. & I wonder what Li Lo is doing this week?

    1. Bruce, you said ‘NZers are so naive and passive, its embarrasses me to be one’. This is it exactly and I feel the same as you.

      Yes, Marvin, please stay here. Your insight is invaluable and the more we have like you, the more likely that eventually people will start to ‘see’. Don’t listen to the ignorant ones who tell you to go back where you came from if you don’t like what is going on. They probably need our pity more than anything. They are so blind that they cannot (or is it, will not?!) see.

      Mike, you always put things completely in a nutshell that everyone can understand. Excellent post and analysis.

  17. Agenda 21 is described as being driven by the philosophy that humans must be stopped from destroying the planet.

    The vehicle for driving this into public acceptance was of course Global Warming. You can only take so many nature programs espousing dire warnings before you go into emotional overload. Every nature program on TV and every national and international body like National Geographic have bought into the concept and repeat it incessantly. It can be difficult not to panic and demand or at least be accepting of ‘government and planetary action’.
    Even now when serious questions are being asked of GW and scepticism is growing, the public still believe that the basic problem exists, even if it may be a little overstated. As perhaps it does. So they still want/are accepting of action on a global scale. This means Agenda 21 as no other mechanism is seen to exist. It is seen as a positive thing or at least as the only plan standing between us and planetary destruction. So no option really.

    Quite where Tribalism fits with this is more difficult to define. Certainly the High Priestess of One World Government, Helen Clark was no great fan of Maori Tribalism. I think it trundles on for a variety of reasons, genuinely felt if misplaced atonement, corrupt people laced through the entire network making pots of money out of it, a certain amount of alignment with the concept of ‘indigenous rights’ at the UN and it probably acts as an efficient and welcome smoke screen for those pushing Agenda 21. People sharing the philosophy and concerns of this site tend to be opposed to both Tribalism and Agenda 21. The more fronts we have to fight on the harder it is for us. The enemy is well aware of this.

  18. Yes, Spollyike, I’m now convinced after hearing what others have to say that those of us who have lived overseas for a while and then returned, are the ones most likely to immediately see what is going on and how wrong it is.

    However, like you said, Roger, I still can’t understand why other decent, supposedly intelligent NZ people can’t also acknowledge it. The most you can get from them is that they either don’t agree with some of what is happening but a pathetic ‘what can we do?’ or they say John Key is doing a wonderful job and then argue that black is white even in the face of indisputable facts. They just can’t seem to see past the ‘man’ and acknowledge how he naive he is, or the other scenario that he just might have a personal agenda.

    Whatever it is, he is destroying our country and MUST be stopped – somehow!!.

  19. Helen, my thoughts for what they are worth…
    I find it hard to believe JK is so naive. Theres no way he’s stupid and he is certainly privy to way more info than we get.
    On most issues he’s argueably a good PM …. and as we said before this was happening 25yrs before he was PM. He is not the driver.

    So either he supports it (hard to comprehend given his resume) or he is powerless to stop it… I suspect the latter. Anyone, please correct me if you think otherwise….Im always open to new info and changing my opinions…

    Therefore I can only conclude that;

    1). Someone with a hold over us is wielding a big stick… ie the UN (the unelected NWO )…remember they locked us into the Indigenous Peoples Treaty… they are pushing Agenda 21 & Climate Change….and the list goes on….


    2). JK is aware there will be big big trouble if the perpetraitors dont get their way….remember the Aussie TV show (“Trick or Treaty” I think it was called?)….the militants warned of “blood running in the gutters”. It wasnt allowed to be screened in NZ.

    No way could anyone with a measurable IQ think this is good for NZ any more than the mass immigration into Europe is a good thing for Europe…..but on it goes anyway.

    This wont even be good for most Maoris….

    1. Thanks, Bruce. I have to say I have long thought along similar lines. I too can’t really believe, when all is said and done, that Key is so utterly naive. Therefore there has to be something else.

      I’ve long heard of the New World Order but worry that it is another Conspiracy Theory and I don’t want to be caught up in any of that. I do seriously wonder what role the UN is playing in our politics. I also firmly believe that he has his eye on the UN for his future prospects. However, what other reasons could there be apart from the politicians being afraid of anarchy in the streets?

      If the latter is the case, I just wish they would take the risk because there are many of us and I would be prepared to fight for a decent society if it came down to that. Something has to give as we can’t keep on going along the path we are currently treading.

    2. Enoch Powell’s speech in which he spoke of ‘rivers of blood’ comes to mind. I for one would rather a bit of blood now than a lot later on as appears the case for Europe.

    3. I have to state a much less lenient view of John Key & his government. He did not need the Maori party as a coalition partner, yet he has them. He could have stood as firm as Helen Clark did on the seabed & foreshore, but he did not. He did not have to agree to a constitutional review built around perpetuating treaty “principles” – but he has. He did not need to sign NZ up to the UN charter for “indigenous” people – but he did. He did not need to allow acceleration of Treaty payouts – but he has. His party had abolition of Maori seats as a policy item – and he has removed it from his agenda. The list is far far longer, but you get the point. Key has completely ignored the reasonable expectations of those who voted for him and his party. I was one of them, but never again. Having said that, a Labour /Greens /Maori /Mana coalition would be literally a nightmare. Labour MPs who stood firm with Helen Clark against the tide of Maori privilege won’t do so again.

      1. You are so right about John Key, John. He has been an enormous let-down. I had so much hope for him in the 2008 election but when he started talking with the Maori Party when he didn’t need them, I immediately left National. I could see what would happen and it did – probably even more than I foresaw.

        He’s a disgrace and I’m wondering when the fawning public are going to wake up and see behind that smile – which doesn’t meet his eyes by the way.

      2. Yes John, you are right…it makes no sense at all but if he didnt have to do all those things you rightly say he did…why did he do it?
        Surely he would get far more blue support by not going down that path?
        I can only assume then that there must be more to it than we know….

        And I also agree re alternatives to National…zero at present.
        I hope that will change…it must or NZ is stuffed.

  20. Agreed mostly Helen, but I havent seen anything to make me think JK has UN aspirations….Thats usually Labour Party domain….Red Helen & her Comrades.
    To me the UN = The Inter-National Socialist Unity Party.
    We are their proleteriat ….or their battery hens if you like.

    They are unelected and by stealth control the planet more and more by controlling the purse strings.. ie banking….alot like the EU…they are unelected also and control Europe via a central banking system…hence the problems there….

  21. Marvin: for some random reason I googled your quote

    “(The greatest gift to the elite Maori separatists and the quisling, collusive government of New Zealand is the collective ignorance and apathy of the average New Zealander who pays for it.”)

    . . . and found the below posted in a web site about Canadian Indians claiming indigenous rights.. .

    One group of Māori women from Aotearoa, or New Zealand, have even issued a statement of encouragement to those involved in #IdleNoMore and Chief Spence in particular, stating:
    “We thank you for your courage to stand in protection of future generations so that for seven generations and beyond there is a place for our descendants to stand.
    We thank you for your powerful expression, in these moments in time, of the dreams, visions and aspirations of our ancestors, seven generations and beyond, who held true to our protocols, beliefs and values in relationship to all living things.”

    Must confess I found their logic rather convoluted and didn’t fully understand it but what struck me is how tenacious part-Maori from Aotearoa are!
    . . . and how non part-Maori are being portrayed by implication such as here but more obviously elsewhere.


    I believe that the above was a Labour Party slogan that worked successfully to unseat an long-entrenched National government some time ago. It has also brought results in England and USA election campaigns.
    Perhaps “It’s time for a change” could be adopted by those of us who write to newspapers and used as a regular mantra. That which is repeated often enough becomes the “truth” in the minds of our apathetic and robotic public.

    The two tired old major parties have no idea how to resolve the problems that they themselves have created, and the Greens are so politically correct that they would stop anything that looked like progress.

    We need a complete change, not just a re-shuffling of alliances and failed policies. Colin Craig, Muriel Newman and John Ansell all share a common purpose, but without unity the result will be split votes that achieve nothing. What a powerful group those three would make – but each on their own is unlikely to make the slightest dent in the established old boy network.
    I guess that if the Green’s can have two leaders there is no reason why a new party can’t have a democratic three.
    United we stand, divided we fall.

    On the subject of education, I believe that Orwell’s books, “1984” and “Animal Farm” should be mandatory reading for all school pupils.

    “1984” shows clearly how the media, under government directives, can manipulate general thinking and change history to suit a political agenda. The younger generation must learn to question so-called facts that are in reality disguised propaganda.

    “Animal Farm” is a telling example of the inevitable result of practising socialism/communism (translate to ‘Maori Party objectives’) and how an idealistic theory of social equality degenerates into the control of the masses by the privileged few. The socialist leaders become the new capitalists.

    Our children are the country’s future. Unfortunately there needs to be a lot of un-learning of false data before truth can be accepted in their young and pliant minds.

    I personally know two local part-Maori teenagers who are really good at stamping their feet, sticking out their tongues and rolling their eyes – but neither of them can read. What a sad country we have become when Te Reo takes precedence over the three R’s.

    For education and politics to return to sanity there can be only one solution:


      1. It’s hard to get good statistsics-it depends on what you define as ‘being able to read’ ….however I did read that a survey found that 14% of school leavers were unable to read a basic map or a basic timetable. I taught both primary and secondary for 37 years and we had check list that enabled us to ensure such basic skills were not only taught but retaught where necessary given regular practise. How can an adult who can’t read a basic bus timetable get to work?

      2. Hi HW

        No, it’s for real. I’m not suggesting that it is only Maori kids in this situation but there are two local part-Maori boys who are unable to read a simple sign placed on a nearby roadside stall.
        If you want to get an idea of reading and writing standards then I would suggest that you look at any hand-written signs on local community notice boards. Mind boggling stuff – and not just kids.
        I would suggest that the difficulty starts at pre-school age as a lot of parents don’t read to their kids or encourage them to read at all.
        It’s not all up to the teachers – parents need to take responsibility for their own children as well.
        God help those children who go through the total immersion Maori schools. They are handicapped for life in a world where English is becoming the international language and in my mind it is a crime against the child.


    1. Yes, it is time for a change (that was Norm Kirk’s slogan in ’72) – but to what ? The choices are not so clear cut these days, and so far no politician is strongly stating their intention to make the sort of changes we are needing. The last one to do that was Don Brash, and he got assassinated by the liberal media and outflanked by the outright bribes offered by Labour. Even so, he very nearly succeeded – but the brown tide has swept further in since then.

    2. When I came to New Zealand 24 years ago, I had never heard of dislexia. In NZ ,everybody who is crap at reading uses dislexia a a reason . It’s almost seems to be a national disease.There is spelling mistakes everywhere, in ads , in the newspapers, and even on the news. Now they want to make ” texting language”
      acceptable…WTF ?! .I guess I’m just getting old and grumpy…

      1. So true and the sadness is that it minimises those with genuine dyslexia. Sometimes I get stuck on spelling and guess what? I refer to my dictionary!

      2. It’s dyslexia with a “Y” you stupid old fart ! 😦
        Trust me to berate people on their spelling, and then make a mistake myself ….

      3. Everywhere you go there are hand written signs with spelling mistakes and bad grammar and these aren’t the ones using ‘texting language’ as many seem to do these days.

        I agree though. The parents should be far more proactive in their children’s education. You can’t just leave it to the teachers. Reading to your children from an early age boosts their interest in books and it all stems from there. A house with many books will usually have children who show an interest in reading and learning and parents must encourage this.

      4. I agree Helen but on an even more basic level parents should be involved in their children’s education. The system belongs to the parents-not the teachers and especially not the teacher unions! – there are so many ways of being involved. My eldest son was at a school function at his son’s school just before the last election when the school principal stood up and declared-amongst other things-that no one should vote National in the coming election. My son complained, firstly to the BOT and then to the Ministry-to no effect of course, but at least he did the right thing and tried. Even with he being 45 years old I was and extremely proud of him for that!You may not wish to stand in the current BOT elections but you should at least make an opportunity to question the candidates. Ask them about their policies on a variety of topics e.g. religion in schools- areas where they have discretion and can steer the school. After all our schools are already ‘charter’ schools and compared with many countries each school has a high degree of independence – an independence that is always in danger of being eroded. If you don’t want to risk your child being brainwashed then start by questioning the BOT, staff and principal at every opportunity.

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